Interview with Carlton Layne, October 29, 2016

Partial Transcript: Mr. Layne, could you tell me a bit about your life...

Segment Synopsis: Layne recalls growing up in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania- where his father worked as an electrician. Layne states that he attended college Clarion State University. Layne explains that he graduated in 1968, and recalls the influence that the Vietnam War made on his after-college decisions. Layne states that he was hired to work with the U.S Department of Agriculture and was based in central Florida. Layne adds that he failed the Vietnam draft physical due to high blood pressure. Layne recalls that he eventually married and had kids, and was officially labeled as unfit for military services.

Keywords: Clarion University; Elon, Virginia; Portsmouth. Virginia; US Department of Agriculture (USDA)

Partial Transcript: So I worked for USDA for five years...

Segment Synopsis: Layne recalls that he worked in the government in Lake County, Florida at a citrus manufacturing facility before he came to work in Camelo, Georgia. In Camelo, he ran a lab which conducted research over the mold species, Aspergilus Flavus, which was then known to be a toxin and carcinogen, and was present in peanut and cotton seeds. Layne mentions another project he co-created, called Environmental Thrust, which was a group that collected unused cars. Layne explains that he eventually left the USDA and started to work for the EPA

Keywords: Aspergilus flavus (mold); Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Rachel Carson; US Department of Agriculture (USDA)

Partial Transcript: So I took the position with EPA...

Segment Synopsis: Layne recalls that he worked in the public health sector of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Layne explains that he was hired to be a food inspector in Kentucky, where he conducted testing over the pesticides present in agricultural foods. Layne explains that his work in the newly created EPA was revolutionary, as previous Federal Environmental Pesticide Control Acts (FIFRA) did not focus as much on the safety of pesticides and were more concerned with the pesticide involved in interstate commence. Layne explains that the lack of regulation over the usage of pesticides was a government concern that was later addressed in the amended FIFRA.

Keywords: Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Federal Environmental Pesticide Control Act (FIFRA)

Partial Transcript: They caused unknown, adverse affects on the environment...

Segment Synopsis: Layne talks about how the U.S Department of Agriculture did not address the environmental impact of pesticides on the environment. Layne recalls how the Environmental Protection Agency was disliked by pesticide distributors and members of the agricultural community. Layne explains how as an EPA investigator over pesticide use, he often met oppositions from said groups. Layne recalls that the EPA set up regulations for restricted use of pesticide application. Layne talks about how in 1974, he started to conduct work in developing the state plan for Mississippi's pesticide control.

Keywords: Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Insect Control Conference; US Department of Agriculture (USDA)

Partial Transcript: I went over, at one point, to the Insect Control Conference

Segment Synopsis: Layne talks about how he came to work in Mississippi for the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Layne recalls that he was kept in Mississippi, where he was shown around Mississippi to learn more about agriculture. Layne explains that he was taught about agriculture by Edgar Hobbs, who was the face of the Agricultural Aviation Board. Layne explains that he used his learning experience in Mississippi and other states to assist in the writing of legislation for the EPA.

Keywords: Agricultural Aviation Board; Edgar Hobbs; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Insect Control Conference; Roy Clarke

Partial Transcript: There was also a regional organization called SFIREG...

Segment Synopsis: Layne explains that he came to work for SFIREG, a national and state pesticide regulation group, which met in order to create the state plan legislation for the Environmental Protection Agency. Layne recalls he eventually left Mississippi for Florida, where he worked as an inspector for the Floridian crops. Layne recalls that in Florida, he learned about the invasive species, Hydrilla Florida, and the dangers the mosquito population posed to Floridian waterways.

Keywords: Dr. Bill Howler; Environmental Protection Agency; Gainesville, Florida; Hydrilla Florida; Mississippi; SFIREG

Partial Transcript: So there was a lot of work that we were doing back then...

Segment Synopsis: Layne recalls that he eventually was networked with the Florida agricultural community, as an investigator working for the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Layne explains that his connection with Vince Gilleo and Doyle Conner who worked in the Florida Department of Agriculture and Commissioner of Agriculture respectively, assisted him in his involvement in cases concerning the EPA's regulatory investigations. Layne explains that Florida's relationship between the state and federal organizations was non contentious, which eventually allowed for the training of inspectors for the state of Georgia.

Keywords: Doyle Conner; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Florida Department of Agriculture; National Enforcement Training Institute; Vince Gilleo

Partial Transcript: So, the public speaking that began in Mississippi...

Segment Synopsis: Layne talks about his job as a trainer for inspectors employed by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Layne explains that his mentor inspired him to incorporate education in the effort to uphold the standards of the Environmental Protection Agency. Layne recalls that his work in Florida led him to serve and direct the many organizations composing the Florida Aquatic Plant Management Society. Layne talks about how his supervisor, Jack Stonebreaker, eventually compelled him to work in Atlanta, Georgia as chief of the governmental pesticide regulation sector.

Keywords: Altanta, Georgia; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Florida Aquatic Plant Management Society; Jack Stonebreaker; Mississippi; invasive species

Partial Transcript: So I took the position, I went to Atlanta...

Segment Synopsis: Layne talks about his work in Atlanta, Georgia as chief of the pesticide regulation sector of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Layne recalls that his work in Atlanta did not give him the same sense of fulfillment as did his work in Florida, which eventually led him to seek work under the Environmental Protection Agency as a field investigator. Layne expands upon his experience in Atlanta, during which he explains that his work as supervisor required the ability to organize expertise in the effort to find solutions to pesticide-related problems. Layne talks about his experience enforcing the Toxic Substances Control Act. (TSCA).

Keywords: Atlanta, Georgia; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Robert McCarty; Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA)

Partial Transcript: And then, a former college

Segment Synopsis: Layne expands upon the factors that eventually led him to leave his job as the chief of the governmental pesticide regulation sector under the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Layne explains that a colleague who pressed demands on his position eventually encouraged Layne to change positions and conduct work as regulator training educator and case developer for the states of Tennessee, Mississippi, North Carolina, and Florida. Layne recalls that his work was fulfilling, and allowed him to become knowledgeable over the regional aspects of the EPA's regulatory processes.

Keywords: Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Florida; Mississippi; North Carolina; aquatic plant management

Partial Transcript: Florida was still, pretty much the...

Segment Synopsis: Layne talks about Florida's pesticide regulation, which was comprised of two sectors: pesticide/mosquito control and agricultural pesticide control. Layne compares the pesticide management sectors of the states he supervised including South Carolina, Kentucky, and Tennessee. Layne explains that as a project officer in pesticide inspection and management, he discovered that the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) carried out regulations through many different means. Layne talks about the rise of environmental concerns after the publishing of Silent Springs written by Rachel Carson in 1961.

Keywords: Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Florida; Rachel Carson; Silent Springs; South Carolina; Tennessee; University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: I find that environmental statutes...

Segment Synopsis: Layne explains his belief that Nixon implemented environmental policies as a method to gain influence among environmentalists at the time. Layne recalls a hunting experience in the Mississippi delta during his early years in the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

Keywords: 1960's environmental movement; Clean Air Act; Clean Water Act; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Mayhew Mississippi; Pesticide Control Act; Robert McCarty; Silent Springs

Partial Transcript: There's really a point in that...

Segment Synopsis: Layne explains that his boss, Roy Clarke, wanted him to go on a hunting trip early in his career as an Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) inspector so that he might be get to know Mississippi's state government officials. Layne talks about the southeast as a region where relationships are valued in political interactions. Layne states that his networks as an EPA inspector led him to develop an "advisory council" composed of individuals from many different sectors of governments and industry. Layne recalls an incident concerning the misapplication of a highly toxic insecticide called parathion in Mississippi. Layne explains that the case called for coordination between sectors of government and industries in the effort to address the problem.

Keywords: Chip Morgan; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Jeff Case; Larry Beasley; Larry Knight; Parathion; Pascagoula, Mississippi; Robert McCarty; Syngenta

Partial Transcript: So they went and went to the dealer...

Segment Synopsis: Layne continues to explain how people in Pascagoula, Mississippi came to use a toxic insecticide known as parathion for household application. Layne states that Paul Walls was eventually charged as he was with applying parathion without a license. Layne recalls the response by the government to the event, as some areas became Superfund sites (under seizure by the government, in the effort to clean and control toxic areas). Layne talks about how he, along with the help of his advisers and the media, orchestrated a case against Paul Wells which eventually took on a criminal nature.

Keywords: Dock Eatman; Parathion; Pascagoula, Mississippi; Paul Walls; Robert McCarty; Superfund

Partial Transcript: Robert arranged for us to meet with the attorney general...

Segment Synopsis: Layne talks about how he, along with the help of his advisers and the media, addressed and treated the problems posed by the misapplication of parathion found in Mississippi and Alabama. Layne explains that the incident led to the more extensive implementation of education in the southeast, in an effort to create greater pesticide control. Layne recalls that his advisory board was eventually disbanded due to rules that hindered meetings among groups without approval by an official entity. Layne talks about how increased complexity among hierarchies of administration in the EPA was eventually what led him to leave his position as chief investigator.

Keywords: Alabama; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Mississippi; North Carolina; Pascagoula, Missippi

Partial Transcript: After I had left the chiefs position...

Segment Synopsis: Layne talks about a case in which the pesticide Temik had been used to poison deer carcasses. Layne explains that the perpetrator committed crimes in Georgia though he lived in Florida, which led to an interstate investigation. Layne explains that the intent of the poisoning was to kill the predators of turkey. Layne relates another case in which quail farmers were injecting eggs with pesticides in the effort to kill the predators of the quail.

Keywords: Aldicarb; EPA (Environmental Protection Agency); Man in Full (novel); Temik; quail

Partial Transcript: So these agents are out in the woods...

Segment Synopsis: Layne talks about a pesticide case in which quail farmers were injecting eggs with pesticides in order to kill predators in southern Georgia. Layne explains the process of pursuing litigation against the quail farmers. Layne then recalls that the case was prematurely settled, from what Layne believes, was due to politics. Layne explains that the political corruption in the case is one of the reasons that led Layne to stop working in the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

Keywords: Department of Natural Resources; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Fish and Wildlife Services; Furadan; James Palmer

Partial Transcript: So the law firm that handled the consolidated case...

Segment Synopsis: Layne talks about how in Mississippi, as the EPA chief investigator, he encountered only one case in which one of the parties had political motives. Layne recalls that Frank Mitchener, who served on a federal reserve board in Louisiana, applied an insecticide, Toxaphene, which was banned by the EPA. Layne recalls that it rained after the application, which resulted in the contamination of waterways around the area. Layne describes the process of litigation that followed, and emphasizes the fact that the process was carried out without the influence of politics.

Keywords: EPA's Criminal Investigation Division; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Frank M. Mitchener; King and Spalding LLP.; Mississippi; Robert McCarty; Toxaphene; pollution

Partial Transcript: There's nothing in the enforcement response...

Segment Synopsis: Layne talks about how political power in Mississippi was usually utilized in a way that benefited the community. Layne then describes how the political climate of the south has changed in a way that supports diplomacy and faster position turnover. Layne recalls however, in Florida, politics often influenced the order in which EPA cases were addressed. Layne talks about how, occasionally, those who owned large amounts of agricultural land were often not punished as severely when they imposed regulations created by the EPA.

Keywords: Bureau Plant Industry; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Florida; Mississippi; Politics

Partial Transcript: And it didn't really make a difference...

Segment Synopsis: Layne talks about the effects of Floridian politics on the way that Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) cases were handled; as cases that involved political figures were handled with urgency. Layne explains that, under his supervision as the chief investigator, he didn't see any evidence of purposely fixed investigations. Layne describes the majority of Mississippian pesticide-related cases as "drift cases", where herbicides such as 24D Amine would evaporate due to its high volatility. Layne talks about how the decrease of inspectors conducting field work has led to an increase of misinformation among members of the EPA.

Keywords: 24D Amine; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA); Florida; Museum of Natural History; North Carolina; drift case; politics

Partial Transcript: Most of the folks that we get...

Segment Synopsis: Layne talks about how many EPA inspectors don't have an education in the sciences, and instead are liberal art/ journalism majors. Layne emphasizes how the lack of experience and understanding of the scientific method among EPA workers has led to an increase of misinformation in the sector. Layne explains the lack of knowledge among EPA officials as some do not know how to collect samples, though they are given supervision over the many EPA investigations.

Keywords: Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Florida Fruit & Vegetable Association; Office of Compliance and Monitoring; agronomy; entomology; land grant university

Partial Transcript: I got a call...

Segment Synopsis: Layne talks about a previous conversation he had with the EPA inspector general. Layne relates a story in which the EPA, because of the lack of inspector training, was approving imported pesticides that posed potential threats to the environment or human health. Layne talks about he voiced his concerns about the department to the new EPA chief inspector. Layne recalls one of the few agricultural related pesticide poisonings over his career as an EPA inspector. Layne explains that most pesticide poisonings were caused by carelessness and misuse of pesticides.

Keywords: Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Parathion; U.S Department of Homeland Security; U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO)

Partial Transcript: In the delta, the biggest issue...

Segment Synopsis: Layne talks about how in the Mississippi Delta, the heat poses a risk for those who are required to dress heavily for the process of pesticide preparation. Layne explains how, with increased pesticide concentration, there is an increased requirement for protective clothing. Layne emphasizes the need for pesticide prep workers to receive training as to educate them on the risk associated with pesticide preparation. Layne talks about the lack of consideration given to the health of workers in the agricultural community who may not have many rights including the legal and illegal immigrant population.

Keywords: Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Mississippi; immigrant workers; pesticide

Partial Transcript: If you read the statute...

Segment Synopsis: Layne continues explaining the failure of the EPA to recognize the need for education among immigrants, both legal and illegal, over procedures necessary for pesticide handling and management. Layne talks about how the creation of programs by the EPA in the 1980's to address the issue were superficial in nature and did not serve to remediate the effects of misinformation among workers. Layne explains the delegative authority given to EPA inspectors, as inspectors were given the duty of enabling legislation and updating regulation in the creation of state plans that meet EPA requirements.

Keywords: Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); delegation; immigrant workers; pesticide; regulation; remediation

Partial Transcript: And then once that's done...

Segment Synopsis: Layne talks about the process of implementing state plans. Layne explains the process of delegation for the enforcement of EPA regulations. Layne emphasizes the need for funding and qualified workers among the EPA. Layne explains that the current adversary of the states towards the EPA on both the federal and state level, has effected the processes required for the protection of human health and the environment. Layne explains the possible need for increased federal supervision and delegation in the implementation in EPA standards.

Keywords: Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); federal regulation; implementation; regulation

Partial Transcript: So you mentioned the southern democrat...

Segment Synopsis: Layne talks about how the political alignment of African Americans towards the democratic party after the era of Reconstruction resulted in blacks being forced to vote Democratic, shortly after the retrieval of the martial presence in the southern states. Layne relates how, in the 1970's while living in the south, he often observed ballots which excluded runners who didn't align politically with the majority of whites at the time.

Subjects: Ben Butler; Civil War; Jim Crow Laws; Mississippi delta; Redemption by Nicholas Lemann; Rutherford B. Hayes; democrat; discrimination; political alignment

Partial Transcript: And also from a historical standpoint...

Segment Synopsis: Layne talks about how the enslaved population in the 19th century South has effected the demographics of the current population in southern states. Layne explains that he grew up accustomed to interacting with African Americans throughout both his early life and his career. Layne explains that as an enforcement inspector for the EPA, he did not perceive any racial bias during his career. Layne recalls, however, that throughout his career, he often wondered whether blacks were ever made aware of their rights guaranteed through the EPA and the federal law.

Keywords: Benny Thompson; Environmental Protection Agency; Georgia; James Whitman; Mississippi; South Carolina; slave population; slavery

Partial Transcript: It wasn't until, I'm gonna say...

Segment Synopsis: Layne explains that, throughout his career, he rarely interacted with African Americans who were inspectors or EPA officials. Layne states that many minorities were targeted by both government and industries as institutions had "unofficial" quotas to meet. Layne recalls how in many pesticide perpetration (usually distributors of the toxic pesticide parathion) cases, the perpetrators were African American and were selling to fellow African Americans.

Keywords: African American; Bureau of Plant Industries; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Mississippi Delta; Parathion; emulsification

Partial Transcript: It kinda gets to your question...

Segment Synopsis: Layne explains that lack of education and knowledge over the dangers posed by parathion was due to a fear of government officials, including EPA inspectors among African Americans working in poor agricultural communities. Layne talks about how the poor housing among workers in southern states led to such extensive infestations that pesticide control companies would not provide services for fear of breaking pesticide application regulations. Layne explains that because there was no pesticide service provided for these communities, "entrepreneurs" without training or certification would often apply poisonous pesticides to households, which would eventually lead to investigation conducted by the EPA.

Keywords: Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Pest Control; agriculture; parathion

Partial Transcript: So the black applicators then...

Segment Synopsis: Layne explains the investigative process performed by the EPA in the pursuit of evidence of pesticide misapplication among the poor, typically African American resident agricultural workers. Layne talks about how the new increased cost of pesticides has led to decreased misuse of pesticides. Layne explains that pesticide chemicals such as DDT were cancelled by the EPA due to political reasons instead of evidence-based science. Layne describes his position that the risks posed by malaria in many third world countries outweighed the benefit of refraining from DDT usage.

Keywords: DDT; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); Mississippi Delta; chlorinated hydrocarbon; herbicide

Partial Transcript: Did you have good relationships with some farmers in the delta?

Segment Synopsis: Layne recalls that throughout his career in the EPA, he did not form many relationships with farmers, though he did maintain a few connections with the agricultural aviation community. Layne recalls that the agricultural aviation community was a self-regulating community. Layne explains that the lack of regulatory governmental enforcement over the aviation community led to the corruption of some pesticide-related investigations. Layne talks about how, as the EPA chief investigator, he formed agreements between the EPA, Plant Bureau Industries, and the agricultural aviation community of Mississippi that organized and delegated the regulations of the agricultural aviation community.

Keywords: Bureau of Plant Industries; Edgar Hobbs; Mississippi Delta; agricultural aviation; investigations; pesticide

Partial Transcript: So then the ag-aviation board was done away with...

Segment Synopsis: Layne explains that because the regulative power of the Agricultural Aviation Board was divided among the EPA and the Plant Bureau Industries, the Mississippi Agricultural Aviation Board was eventually terminated. Layne relates a story of his experience in a duck-hunting club, in which he knew a man called David Lewis, who assisted him in locating the migrated duck population.

Keywords: David Lewis; Environmental Protection Agency; Mississippi Agricultural Aviation Board; Plant Bureau Industries; agricultural aviation community; duck hunting

Partial Transcript: Do you have anything that you think...

Segment Synopsis: Layne talks about how the public opinion over pesticides hinders the eradication of invasive species. Layne talks about how on a national level, ignorance portrayed among people and the media hinders progress in agriculture. Layne talks about how his purpose as a pesticides educator is to invoke questions, and assist people in challenging misinformation. Layne opines that pesticide regulation should not be a sector in the Environmental Protection Agency, as it is a conflict of interests. Layne explains that pesticide regulation is an optimization process, in which the benefit often outweighs the risk.

Keywords: Department of Agriculture; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); herbicide; invasive aquatic species; pesticide; pesticide regulation