Interview with Cheryl Head Rashied and Raymond Head III, June 22, 2017

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RICHIE BRAMAN:Okay, perfect. Anytime you're ready.

JEWEL WALKER-HARPS:Be-Atrice.

BE-ATRICE CUNNINGHAM:Today is June 21, 2017, and I'm Be-Atrice Cunningham, and I'm joined by.

WALKER-HARPS:Jewel Walker-Harps, Griffin branch, NAACP.

ELLEN BAUSKE:Ellen Bauske, Center for Urban Agriculture.

BRAMAN:Richie Braman, also with the Center for Urban Agriculture.

CUNNINGHAM:And today, we'll be speaking with Ms. Cheryl Head Rashied and Raymond Head III, the children of the late Raymond Head Jr. We're at the University of Georgia, Griffin Campus in the Center for Urban Agriculture's conference room in Griffin, Georgia. And we're conducting this interview as part of the Griffin African American Oral History Project. Thank you both for joining us today, and thank you for coming in just to share your story as well as your family's story. If you can, please just start off by stating your name and your birth year.

CHERYL HEAD RASHIED:Good afternoon, thank you. My name is Cheryl Head Rashied. I was born in 1948.

RAYMOND HEAD III:And my name is Raymond Head III, and I was born in 1950.

CUNNINGHAM:All right. And if you-all could start off by just telling us a little bit about your early life, if you can tell us about your childhood. Like where did your start off, where did -- where were you born, and where did you grow up?

RASHIED:Thank you, Be-Atrice. Because I am the oldest of the Raymond Head children -- I'm the oldest sibling, one sister, Raylanda, and my youngest brother Raymond. We are stairsteps; we are a year apart. Born in Griffin, Georgia, at 438 North Fourth Street in Griffin right in the Fairmont 00:02:00community, which was the center of our life as children. Everything took place in this community. We were a small community. My mother, Ceola Johnson Head was a teacher. My father at that time, as a child, was a tailor. He worked at what we call the shop. It was Cleanwell Pressing Club. He was there. My mother said that he spent most of his time at the cleaners, and that's where we knew him to work. Mother was a very good mother. Being a teacher, she wanted us to do the things that she thought were best for us. My brother Raymond was in 00:03:00her class in the second grade?

HEAD:Third grade.

RASHIED:Third grade. She was a third grade teacher and so we grew up as teacher's children. Then you always said, "Preacher's children and teacher's children, they had to walk that straight and narrow," so... And she was very strict about us doing homework and being the best little children that we could be. I think my brother was in her class at one time, is that correct, Raymond?

HEAD:That is correct.

RASHIED:And when those grades weren't quite what he wanted them to be, what happened?

CUNNINGHAM:(laughs) She didn't spare the rod. (laughter)

RASHIED:She didn't spare the rod. She got him straight before he could get back to the class, and when he was back into the class, he fell in line. So we had a very happy childhood in Griffin. My mother was a -- she called 00:04:00herself a U-All girl. She was born in Arkansas; she grew up in Mississippi. She was raised in Mississippi, so she -- growing up in the '40s, she knew about being a child of the South. And my bro-- my father, also a Griffin boy, growing up in Griffin. They met each other at Tuskegee Institute, which is now Tuskegee University in Alabama. And they started their romance right at the end of my father's schooling there. So I had a very -- a good childhood. Fairmont, as I said, was the center of my world. I was a pretty good student. I was considered an honor student and enjoyed my friendships with my friends. I think 00:05:00everything was all well in my world until maybe 1963, and that was the year that President John F. Kennedy was assassinated. And I can remember my biology teacher making that announcement to the class. And she came into the biology lab and said, "The President has been shot," and I thought this is the most terrible thing, how could the president of the United States be shot? And she was quite disturbed by this fact. And so I can remember quite distinctly walking home that day thinking that if this can happen, anything can happen, anything terrible. My world seemed to be changed in a sense. And maybe right about that time in 1963, we started to have this upheaval all across the country in terms of 00:06:00civil rights. But up until that time, my mother and my father -- I would say we were maybe sheltered from most of the woes of the world, and we had a happy childhood. I went on to graduate. I married out of high school. I was what you would call a child bride to Reverend Shropshire's son. We were high school sweethearts and so we had one child, but I continued my education and graduated from Philander Smith College in Little Rock, and that is where, you know, I became an adult. But up until that time, everything was a good, good life for me. Fairmont -- you've asked about Fairmont, Fairmont High School 00:07:00to me was like a prep school. We had very professional teachers who were concerned about us as young black students, and they wanted the best for us. If you look in any of the Fairmont yearbooks -- and I have started a collection of them -- you will find that we were all well groomed. They wanted us all -- we dressed alike. In the choral pictures, all of the young ladies, your legs were crossed the same. If you had on gloves -- the hair, the dresses were all made the same. The young men dressed a certain way. We wanted to show that we were good and decent people and so our activities, we were outstanding in 00:08:00everything that we did. We -- wherever we went, it was first place whether it was in sports or chorus or dramatics. The teachers were -- they were young teachers themselves. A lot of them were just out of college and so they made us want to do the best we could there. And the record will show that even now that most of us have continued to go on to uphold those standards. I don't want to ramble. I know you've asked me about early childhood but anything in particular? Then, I can refocus on that, so I can stay --

JEWEL WALKER-HARPS:Who was the biology teacher you mentioned --

RASHIED:Ms. Crew.

WALKER-HARPS:Crew.

RASHIED:Crew.

WALKER-HARPS:Beuna.

RASHIED:Beuna, Crew, Ms. Beuna Crew, C-R-E-W. Yeah, she was the 00:09:00biology teacher. I had many teachers that I was very fond of. I know that you interviewed Juanitress Morris and her mother Mrs. Juanita Morris. I remember she asked me to come into her class to do a dramatic presentation one day. I -- they said that I poured water on the house. I made them cry that day. And so I had to do this performance for all of the classes, and her class was one of the classes, so I do remember that. But that -- as I said, Fairmont and the Fairmont community was the center of our lives. My late grandfather -- paternal grandfather Raymond Head Sr. was a prominent businessman in Griffin. And there was a park in the community that was named for my grandfather, so not 00:10:00only did my -- was my father honored to have a park named after him, but my grandfather also was the first Head Park, and that was there in my community. And it was all that we had for our reco-- recreational activities because everything was segregated. We, every Fourth of July, have a very vivid memory of being in that park, and families would spread out all through the park with their blankets and picnic baskets from the top of the hill all the way down to the pool. And because the pools were segregated and even in Atlanta, some of the kids were not able to swim in these pools, and they would come down to Griffin by the busloads. And they would be lined up at the pool on Johnson 00:11:00Pool Road, and it was the happiest time. Those were really happy times. So we were a very close-knit community because everything was segregated. We played together, we went to church together, we went to school together, all of our social activities were together. It was just us. And so little did we know at that time, the tide would change, but I was used to segregation. Of course, we're not talking about that now, but that -- it was a happy childhood.

WALKER-HARPS:Very clear.

RASHIED:Thank you.

CUNNINGHAM:So you did mention that your -- both of your parents were childrens of the South.

RASHIED:Yes.

CUNNINGHAM:Did they tell you anything about what life was like for them growing up?

RASHIED:Yes. My mother was an only child. She grew up in the 00:12:00Mississippi Delta, Swiftown, Mississippi. She went to high school in Greenwood, Mississippi. Her father had a country store, and I can remember that. I remember my maternal grandfather. He came to Griffin, had a stroke, and died when I was five years old. That was quite devastating for my mother. But he was very fond of my mother and called her Sister. She had a lot of nicknames growing up as an only child. But she knew about segregation being an only child out in the country and being an only child -- my maternal grandmother was from Arkansas, and they met in Arkansas and moved to Mississippi. Her grandmother lived with her and so I think she was probably a spoiled child. She always told 00:13:00me she had nice clothes. They were able, my grandmother, to dress her in nice things and so she had a good childhood. I can remember traveling back with her to Mississippi, and we would always have to travel during the day. You couldn't travel during the night going back in that part of the country nor could you get a hotel. And people would put up their homes where you could stay. I remember staying -- I don't know if you remember that, Raymond or not -- but staying at a house as a little girl. These were strangers, but there would be certain homes that you could stay with because it wasn't safe to travel during the day. And I remember once going through Mississippi, and we stopped at a little 00:14:00hamburger shack, and I remember us getting out going to get these -- try to get a hamburger. And the man said, "You-all need to go back to the back," and I remember my mother saying, "We don't do the back," and we got back in the car. And I remember I wanted a hamburger, but we did not. And so that was life as what I know of my mother growing up in Mississippi. My father and his brothers because there were three little boys, they had, I think, a happy childhood. And I think because my grandfather was a prominent businessman during that era that they were able to have a pretty good life during that time. I recently found out that my paternal grandfather had gone to Savannah State 00:15:00College. I did not know that, and I'm going to have to do research. Up until that time, I only -- I really didn't know, but I just found that out. But being a businessman himself and my maternal grandmother, they all wanted the best for these three little boys. And by him opening this business, the Cleanwell Pressing Club, afforded them these opportunities that a lot of kids did not have. Some would say they were lucky; I say that they were blessed that our opportunities... Because my mother being that only child and they wanted to send her to school and give her that opportunity, gave her an opportunity that a lot of young girls did not have and so that was a blessing. The same 00:16:00thing for my father, his mother and father wanted the best for him. They were just afforded an opportunity that a lot of people were not able to have, and that gave them this gift of an education that allowed them to help us and further us along. So --

WALKER-HARPS:So that was -- excuse me. Ms. Pauline was your paternal --

RASHIED:My paternal grandmother. Pauline Phillips Head was my paternal grandmother. That was Raymond Jr.'s mother. She was a wonderful grandmother and mother. She was a Griffin girl. She came from a family of about 17 children if I'm not mistaken on that number. And so she met Raymond Sr., and they 00:17:00made their home there in Griffin. She was also a part of the Head businesses. Raymond Sr., my grandmother, Pauline Head, Otis Jr., and Phillip made up the Head Enterprises businesses of that day, and so...

CUNNINGHAM:Earlier, you alluded to some fond memories of growing up in the Fairmont community with the picnics. Are there other memories that you'd like to share with us of what the community was like?

RASHIED:As I said, the community was very close-knit. I had my little friends, girlfriends there in Griffin. I can remember us doing things that children do, making mud pies. And I was always creative coming up with parties, creating little clubs and those types of things. But Fairmont, the school 00:18:00provided many extracurricular activities for us. I was in the drama club, so I definitely enjoyed that part of it. Mr. Felton Stringer was one of my favorite teachers, and he had me to join the drama club and so I enjoyed going to a lot of the competitions for dramatics. And I remember one year, we took first place, and I took best actress, and a friend of mine took the best actor part. So I always like to say I have a little actress in me. I miss my calling on that, but I did enjoy that, and so... But there were the football games, and 00:19:00one thing, we had a very fine band. I would say one of the best in the state and one of the best directors probably in the country, Mr. Rufus Tucker. And that band would come down Fourth Street, on my street, on their way to the stadium on Saturday nights. You remember that?

HEAD:Mm-hmm, right.

RASHIED:Tray and you were -- were you in the band during that time?

HEAD:In the ninth grade --

RASHIED:In the ninth grade?

HEAD:-- I was in the band.

RASHIED:In the band. And they would come down.

HEAD:Right.

BAUSKE:What did you play?

HEAD:I was a trumpet player.

BAUSKE:Great. (laughter)

RASHIED:But they would put on a show when they -- see, when they got in front of our house, they knew that they would have a big crowd of people. Because people would come from all of the streets over because they knew they were coming down Fourth Street. And they would go all the way down Fourth Street because it ran straight to the stadium. And their majorettes, I always thought we 00:20:00had the prettiest girls were the majorettes, and they would be stepping, and they would start to play, and that was a very fond memory of the band. And so we were outstanding and everything. I would say the cheerleaders, the band, the chorus, the organizations that we had, I enjo--

WALKER-HARPS:So you know Bogarsette?

RASHIED:Bogarsette, I was a Bogarsette. That was a social club that was formed by Mr. -- the late Mr. Philip Hood who was a favorite teacher of many, and I believe Ms. CJ Motley?. It was a club that was formed based on the sororities and fraternities of the colleges. And so you had to -- you were invited to join. You had to go through an initiation just like you would in a sorority 00:21:00or a fraternity. And I was invited to become a Bogarsette, and thank you for reminding me of that. That was a fun time because we looked up to the older girls. Once we got down to Fairmont, we just thought Fairmont was the world. Fairmont was such an impressive school even back in the '50s before I got there. As I said, the teachers just instilled in us that you have to be the best, you have to give your best, you want to look the best -- your best. You had to act your best when you were out in the street so to speak. I had a neighbor next door to me, and you just did not get out in the streets and act any way. She would come out -- one of the neighbors, she would come out and reprimand you. She didn't like the girls with shorts too short. She didn't like the boys playing in the baseball field across the street. Is that right, Raymond?

HEAD:That is correct.

RASHIED:And so you had to straighten up. And another thing about our community, we say it takes a village, it was a village in those days. If I did anything at Fairmont that was not correct, I didn't have to wait to get home or wait a week or so for my mother to find out about it. She knew it when I got home. It was already known, and believe me, I found that out quickly, and so... And plus, I had my uncle Phillip Head's wife was a teacher, and she was a librarian. And she called me into the library once. I think I was talking to my daughter's father, that high school sweetheart and called me into the library about it one day, so... So needless to say, things got back home pretty quickly in 00:23:00those days, so... But there were -- Fairmont, as I said, there were dances and all of the wonderful things that you can think of in that community. And the church also was quite vital to us during that time. That's -- a lot of people's social activities were there in the church, so the church and the school played a major part in my life, so --

CUNNINGHAM:So those major events like the marching band coming down the street, did that bring in other ethnic groups to join in, or was it still very segregated?

RASHIED:No. We're talking about segregation. No, that was strictly -- we played football teams in the local vicinity. Everything was totally segregated. I never -- we had no interactions with Griffin High School or, I 00:24:00didn't realize, Spalding High School during that time, but Griffin High School was the high school that I knew the most about. So there was no interaction there at all. It wasn't until much later on during the civil rights era that I even had an opportunity to talk to anyone of another race, so to speak. I would be with my mother if I had an opportunity to say something, but I don't recall ever having a conversation. So no, we were living in a segregated society at that time.

CUNNINGHAM:Can you tell us about your earliest memory of segregation in Griffin?

RASHIED:Yes. I remember my earliest memories because of little things like the water foundation. You did not drink from the white fountain that we had 00:25:00our own water fountain. We had our own entrances in certain places. My mother -- my father was soft-spoken. My mother, she -- I think coming out of that segregated Mississippi, and Mississippi was notorious in those days with this reputation for, in said terms, the segregation. But my mother, I would be with her sometimes, and she did not mind speaking her mind. And we would go into the local stores downtown and we would -- there were no black salesclerks. They were all white. Everyone was white. You may see a black person running the elevators or doing some janitorial work or those types of things. Those were 00:26:00the jobs that we held. We'd go into the store, and a white clerk would say, "May I help you girls?" The wrong thing to say to my mother. She would immediately say, "There's only one girl standing here, and that's my daughter." She was quick to point that out. That was thought of -- whereas now, you may not think anything about that, but that was thought of as an affront. We were taught to address everyone by a first -- not by a first name but as old folks would say, "Put a handle on it." You were Mrs. Harps or you were a Ms. Rashied or a Ms. Whomever or a Mr. Raymond, but you did not address adults in that 00:27:00way. But during that time, the social mores were that black women were called by their first names, black men were called by their first names. There was no such thing as Mrs. Head. But she also went into a pharmacy. This was written in a book. A pharmacist in Griffin wrote this story that my mother went into the pharmacy. She and this pharmacist had cordial conversations with each other. He would always fill her prescriptions. But on this particular day, I don't know if my mother had just become tired of this or not, but the point was that she... When he filled her prescription on the labels, he would put Ceola Head. Now, the doctor who was Dr. Releford -- Charles, Releford who was a black 00:28:00doctor, the first black doctor -- well, not the first but he had come to Griffin to practice -- would put Mrs. Ceola Head. And my mother told the pharmacist that she wanted to speak to him in private. And she pulled him to the side and told him that -- she called him Dr. B? -- "I noticed that you fill my labels as Ceola Head." Oh, and then my mother, this part of her came out. She said, "I am a married woman. I am legally married, I have a husband, and my children are not bastards. Why do you not address me or label it as missus?" In fact, he addressed her as Ceola whenever she came into the pharmacy and so, as 00:29:00he wrote, that changed his life. From then on, their relationship was not quite the same. But he stated that this was the beginning of a change for him -- that he had never addressed a black woman by the title, missus. That was something they were not used to. He even stated in his book that if he felt close to a black woman, she was an -- well, I would say auntie?, they would say antie. (laughs) But she was never addressed with a title. So that was my mother and some of the things that we encountered or I encountered growing up. But I was very much aware that we had our place. We knew that we couldn't eat at the lunch counters downtown.

HEAD:Correct.

RASHIED:You want to add something to that?

HEAD:Right. We could not eat at the lunch counter. In fact, there were different 00:30:00lunch counters in the five-and-dime store, one was on one wall and one was on the right wall, and you had to choose. You didn't -- really didn't have a choice, so you either ate where you were supposed to or you didn't eat, and that was a part of that segregated period. And that led up to a lot of the picketing that eventually came forth when we decided that it was time for a change.

CUNNINGHAM:Well, can you tell us a little bit more about the racial climate during the early days of desegregation?

HEAD:The racial climate, I think when we all -- when things began to change or there was a movement for change, well Dad was very instrumental with other black leaders in the community to, in fact, change. And, in fact, they put 00:31:00together a group -- a biracial committee that met often to smooth things through in Griffin because they did not want the hostilities or the violent climate that you had in some of the other southern cities. But there were, were tensions. In fact, there was an active Klan group in Griffin that made it known that they were against any type of possible integration in the city. So when the actions actually began, we started picketing, a group started picketing the five and ten-cent stores, and that was more observed by the populace because most of the downtown businesses were owned by whites. And it got a lot of press 00:32:00in the Griffin Daily News, so you had a lot of people that would fight against that. For instance, our business was a cleaning business and tailoring business. We had a lot of whites that brought their alterations to Cleanwell cleaners because as she just said, my dad was an excellent tailor. But on some days, you would have an individual, a white individual have a bundle of clothes in his hands, and he will walk up to the door and then he would turn around with the clothes and return to his car. Now, either he was a customer or he was not a customer, and a lot of times, we thought he was not a customer. He was sending a message. And some of the messages that were sent really concerned us 00:33:00because I was there a day when the Klan drove up to the business, got out the car, put a cross in front of the business, and set it on fire, and left. I remember when the Klan came and picketed our businesses. I'm on a picture now with one of my nieces, she was a baby, I was holding her in my arms, passing the Klan. Not only did they burn a cross in front of our business, we also had a cross burned in front of our residence one night. Also that cross was burned in front of one my relative's home, my uncle Otis's home. So that really brought the community to be more security conscious of what's going on, and 00:34:00they would patrol during the night the neighborhood to assure that the community was safe. So, yes, there were some hostilities that were there. And I believe there were situations where the police, local police did capture groups that had guns, that had no idea, but they were on a watch list in Griffin, and they were concerned. The Klan was the real concern that we had. And then they met at the local church a lot of times, my father and the other leaders, and they would come by and throw tomatoes at us as we were coming out of the church. So to answer your question, yeah, there were tensions and there were concerns for our safety during that particular time. But as me being a part of the 00:35:00integration of the schools, eventually, it went on without a hitch because of that biracial committee. Because it brought whites and blacks together, the clergy, and civic leader to work through the difficulties that could possibly come up during that time.

CUNNINGHAM:Can you tell us a little bit more about the biracial committee, maybe who it was made up of?

HEAD:I really can't say who all was on the committee.

CUNNINGHAM:Sure.

RASHIED:I do know that Mrs. Mary Fitzhugh was one of the white members of the commu-- of the committee. I recently saw their names. I know my father was a close friend of hers, and she was quite active. St. Stephens Episcopal Church was active in helping. The church provided -- were having meetings 00:36:00there at some point. And, also, I believe UGA here may have had some -- was a positive -- like had a positive influence towards the integration process. But I'll think a minute. Go ahead, I just --

HEAD:I'm all right.

RASHIED:-- know Mrs. Fitzhugh.

WALKER-HARPS:Do you remember those persons who were -- (clears throat) excuse me -- on the committee from the school? There was a committee established between Griffin High and Fairmont High that were -- a plan of integration as far as the students were concerned?

HEAD:No, I don't remember. All I know is my dad was very active in a lot of different areas during that particular time. I was still just a student, (laughs) you know?

WALKER-HARPS:Oh, what was life like for you as a student, once you were in that group that transferred?

HEAD:Right, I was in the first group they transferred, and it was definitely eye-opening. Now, how did I come to that point? I'll explain that. We did have a great family, and growing up, we had loving parents, and they were educated, and I'm blessed that my dad was in the household. And we also experienced a lot because we traveled a lot. Traveled down to Florida to the beaches, and every summer, we would go to the Little Rock, Arkansas, to visit my grandmother, my mother's mother. And while visiting there one day, and I must say that my grandmother would take us all around Little Rock, Arkansas. She liked to walk (laughter), and that's the hardest place that I've ever been.

RASHIED:Yeah, --

HEAD:But I do recall during that time she took us over and showed us Central High School who had the Little Rock Nine integrate at the school. And I thought I have never seen a high school as huge as this particular place. It was just awesome. And then I kept thinking about the nine that had to go in there and integrate and had the guards on their side to go in there. I saw that school. Now, here I was in Little Rock, Arkansas, at my grandmother's house, and my mother said, "I just talked to your dad, and he wants you to go to Griffin High." and I said to her, "Go to Griffin High for what?" (laughter) "See, he wants you to integrate Griffin High," and I said, "What? Is Daddy crazy?"

RASHIED:(laughs)

HEAD:"Integrate Griffin High? I've been with my friends from the first grade all the way up to the ninth grade, been to Fairmont just that 00:39:00last year, the ninth grade, and you want me to transfer to Griffin High?" I said, "I'll have to talk to him when I get back home." (laughter) So when I got home and I approached my dad -- and sometimes, you just have to listen. And he said, "Well, the reason I want you to do it, there have been a lot of families who have committed their kids to doing things in the movement, particularly those that have gone uptown and walked the picket line and chanted and did different things. And I don't want it to seem as if we have sheltered you-all, your sisters" and me. "And I want you to be a part of something, and I want you to do this." Well, he put it that way. (laughter) I said, "Well, I 00:40:00can understand your point," and I said, "I'll do it." Well, that day finally came during the fall of '66. I'm leaving Fairmont High School, and of course, my sister has explained how -- vividly what a great school that was. Now, my take on leaving my community high school to go to Griffin High was like being between two worlds. One world of familiarity where I knew everybody, a world where I had support, a world where I knew I could get academic success to another world that I knew nothing about. There was a fear factor, and the fear factor 00:41:00was the unknown. The fear factor was not knowing what I didn't know. I didn't know what I should know. But I recall that day that I walked into Griffin High, and I said, "Wow, this is a big school, never seen a school this large other than Central," and it makes two or three of Griffin High. But I recall walking down the hallway -- I don't even know how I got to school that morning. I'm sure my mom and dad dropped me off. But as I walked down the hall, one of the students, white students saw me coming down the hall, and he said, "There goes Martin Luther King." (laughs) Now, I didn't know if that was an insult, but when I processed it, it made me feel real good because if he had to say 00:42:00something, that's what he said to me, "There goes Martin Luther King." And at that particular time, that's when I realized exactly what I was there for -- to show my integrity, the people behind me that had to come through behind me. I knew that I had them on my shoulders, and it was important, (clears throat) excuse me, for me to go in there and do my best under the circumstances that I had. It was not easy. It definitely was not easy because at that particular time, I think Griffin High had about 2000 students or maybe more, and 00:43:00there were 12 of us in that first wave in '66 to go in there. Now, I can't name all 12 because I had no idea who was coming into that school that day. But there were individuals that came in as seniors and juniors. I came in as a pure freshman, the 10th grade. It was an interesting experience. Now, how did the kids take us? Well, first thing you wanted to do was just be observant. You had also a concern for your safety because I knew what had gone on previously out in the community, the forces that did not want this, and I didn't know the forces who agreed with it, so I was in a land of unknown. So in order for us 00:44:00to feel that safety net, what the administration decided to do during our lunch hours was to segregate us, in a sense, at one table in the cafeteria adjacent to the teaching staff so as we could be viewed, assuming for safety reason. And I'm sitting at the table, and I'm looking out at all the student. Well, that lasted for about two months, and I recall telling my tablemates -- and this was an all-black table. I said, "If we are going to be students here, we are going to have to assimilate." I said, "So today is the last day I'm sitting at 00:45:00this table." Well, the next day came, I got my tray, went out into the masses, and set my tray down. I cleared about 10 or 15 (laughter) students when I sat down and ate my meal. And then the others started joining different tables, and, I don't know, we cleared out the cafeteria (laughter) that day. But we had to do what we had to do because if we were going to be a part of that school, then we wanted to assimilate. Now, the next thing I know, I'm getting a call to the principal's office. And the principal asked me what was the idea of us leaving our table to go it sit out in the cafeteria and asked me if I was the 00:46:00leader. I said, "No, sir, we -- I'm not the leader. We all agreed that if we want to be a part of this school, we had to assimilate in this school," and I heard no more from him. But going forth in the classrooms, a lot of the classrooms, I was the only black in the classroom. And I always sat along the wall, and of course, my mother told me that would be possibly a safer place to sit because I could observe things around me. Now, I had to go in and sit in the classroom, worry about my safety, worry about the academics, worry about not being communicated with, just being there feeling alone, away from 00:47:00all of my friends. And that was kind of hard to get through. Also at Griffin High, I was in awe of the academic selection that they did have -- Latin, humanity programs, humanity class, and a speech class. And I chose to go into the speech class, and I never would forget that one of my first speeches to the class -- I don't recall what the topic was, but when I got up to speak and I looked out and saw all these white faces, I froze. I couldn't say anything. And I recall -- I'll never forget; Ms. Elliott was the speech teacher. Afterwards, she pulled me to the side, and she said, "It's going to be all 00:48:00right. Next time just take your time." Ms. Elliott was the one who actually named -- won the contest that named the Atlanta Falcons; I'll never forget that. But the next time, I recall doing a speech on the sinking of the Titanic, and I think I had them crying in there, but that was an experience. Now, there were other experiences that were positive and negative. I can say from a positive experience that there were kids in there that were friendly, and there were kids in the class that were not so friendly. I did observe and notice that you-all aren't that much different from the kids in my community or the overall community. There were different socioeconomic backgrounds in that 00:49:00population. I could tell the kids with the parents who had the businesses and had the money. I could tell the blue-collar kids, the kids whose parents either worked at the mills, or the kids that were struggling because I noticed the division that they had in their culture, and I had to adjust. So the person who worked at -- parents worked in the business and they're the popular kid, they would speak because what did they have to lose? But I had the haters over here who would leave notes, the KKK on your desk or in study hall, the massive study hall with 50 or 60 people and you're sitting there trying to study and spitballs come at you and what have you. But I always held my integrity in the situation because I knew that was important, that was important, and those were 00:50:00some of the things. And I recall the situation, a biology teacher that took the class out on a field trip. Behind the football stadium, there was a cemetery, and we were looking at plant specimen. And after we had completed that, he pulled me to the side and said, "I'm -- Raymond, I'm going to take the class to this soda caf before we come back to the classroom. And you can go up to the gym and wait till we get back," and I said, "Well, why is that?" He said, "Well, they don't accept blacks in the soda caf." I said, "Okay." So as I walked off, this white student came up to me and said, "Raymond, I'm sorry that 00:51:00had to happen." And there were those students that sympathized with the situation knowing the difficulties that I had to go through in that environment, but I kept my head high and kept doing what I had to do. By my senior year, I pretty much had conquered all my fears and what have you. I did go out on the baseball team, made the team as the first black baseball player. Didn't get much playing time but I recall one day at practice, I was in the batting cage -- well, I was waiting to go into the batting cage, and the sheriff for the city was out there to practice. And the coach -- in my earshot, the 00:52:00sheriff told the coach, -- I'm waiting to go in the batting cage -- he said, "I see you got a new batboy," and I said, "Wow." Those were the little things that I had to do-- deal with. And then it came a time when the team got a new uniform and when it got to me, I got an old uniform. Well, I had to tell my mom that, and of course, she went and got that taken care of. I ended up getting the new uniform. (laughter) But those were little things. I don't want to, you know, harp on all the negative things because I did get a lot from the experience. But when I got to be a senior and it was time to decide what you want to do once you left there, I went to my counselor and sat with her, and she said, "Well, what are you interested in doing?" I said, "I want to go to college," and 00:53:00she said, "Well, where do you want to go?" I said, "Well, I like to go to Tennessee State University." And she said, "Well, you know they got some good trade schools available, and I think you'll be more cut out to go to a technical school. I said, "Well, that might the case, but I really would like to go to Tennessee State, can you get me some information on that?" She said, "I can get you some, come back tomorrow." I come back the next day, and of course, you know through the counselor, you get the application, and they have the -- well, the book on the school. And when she handed it all to me and when I got the time to look at what she had given me, I said, "Okay, Tennessee State University," and I said, "Wait a minute. Listen, Tennessee State University is in Nashville." She had given me information on the University of Tennessee." (laughter)

CUNNINGHAM:I see.

HEAD:Now, that didn't quite -- (laughter) That's in -- so I actually took it back and said, "You know what, I appreciate it, but this wasn't the university I was speaking of," (laughter) but I ended up graduating in that class. I think there were more like 600, 700 in that class, and out of my incoming 10th grade class, I don't remember how many that were in that class, but we graduated. In that class, there were eight blacks, six females, and myself and another male. There was eight of us, and I always said that I knew how Custer there at the Little Bighorn felt having had that experience. But all in all if I look back, I don't know if I would do it again, but they say I broke a barrier. I 00:55:00-- I'll take it. You know I re-- when you-all mentioned the Bogarsette, the male opposite of Bogarsette at Fairmont High was the Bogarsun, and all my friends were in there. And I never -- I hate to this day, I wasn't a part of that. And as far as clubs or any organizations at Griffin High, I was never in anything. I was in the band from the third grade up until the ninth grade, but I refused to get in Griffin High Band because of not wanting to play Dixie. And I mean it is what it is in that respect, so I didn't get in the band. And at no time during my three-year matriculation there did any of my classmate ever invite 00:56:00me to anything.

CUNNINGHAM:Can you share with us about some of the differences that you saw at Fairmont High versus Griffin High as far as racial equalities or racial inequalities?

HEAD:Well, I think if you just say what other differences were, as I said, there might have been on the academic side some different courses that were offered there. For instance, I say, Latin was over there that might not have been at Fairmont High School. But everything else that they participated in, the different extracurricular activities that they were at Fairmont. My only concern after I went through the experience is that I didn't get the 00:57:00one-on-one that I would have gotten with the instructors. And that mentoring, I didn't get that, so I actually felt I was somewhat behind in leaving Griffin High. I do recall going back to my 40th class reunion, and my wife said, "Well, why are you going back? Nobody is going to know you." She said, "You aren't going to know anybody." I said, "Well, that might be the case, but I want to know that I -- I'm still a Griffin High" -- and at the time they were the Eagles -- "I'm Griffin High Eagle." And I did show up, and I'm on the picture, the only black on there, none of the other black classmates showed up. But it 00:58:00was interesting, I got a lot of people that came up and spoke to me that remember me from the class. But there were a lot of people in the class -- and we were -- my wife and I, we were the only blacks at the event -- that came up and asked me about my experience and applauded me for that. And they said, "That had to -- you had to have a lot of strength to do that" because they want to know was I the only one at Griffin High? I said, "No, I wasn't the only one." But there weren't too many differences that I can see. As I said, it was probably more close-knit at Fairmont High in the fact that, as I spoke earlier about, the socioeconomic of the groups at Fairmont High, it was all one. Whether you -- your ncome level were below poverty line or you were 00:59:00very well off, it didn't matter, we were all one family. Griffin High, you saw the division, and you saw who dealt with each other. And I recall that in my observance, I always would hear the students talk about, "We're going to Daytona, going to Daytona." I said, "Well, what's in Daytona?" but that was where they would go for their breaks and have a good time. And even though I didn't get to Tennessee State University after graduation, I ended up at Bethune--Cookman College, which is located at Daytona Beach, and I say, "Now, I know why they (laughter) there down there." I had a great, great -- we had a great time there. I felt I had to go back home, and that was where I went when I left Griffin High. But for the experience, I'm able to deal with 01:00:00people of different culture, race, ethnicity, and all, it was a great learning experience for me. And it has helped me in my career. I'm retired now, but it has helped me along in my career. Because I've dealt with the different people in the positive side and the negative side, and through that, kept my head and was able to resolve issues. And it was a good experience.

BAUSKE:I have a -- you went to Griffin in 1968?

HEAD:No, in '66, I graduated in '68.

BAUSKE:Okay. When was Fairmont High School fully integrated and closed as a high school?

HEAD:I'm thinking it was around '70, wasn't it, 1970?

RASHIED:Seventy -- between '70 and '72. I --

HEAD:Nineteen seventy --

RASHIED:-- but the last -- maybe '72--

HEAD:Two.

RASHIED:-- was the last class that I know from Fairmont. Yes, That's about right.

WALKER-HARPS:Well, it was at that time when you de-- when they decided that the, oh, the football team would be the Bears instead of the Eagles --

HEAD:Right, right, that was the compromise.

RASHIED:The compromise.

HEAD:And I am -- I also might add, too, that after my junior year -- I'm sorry, after my whatever would've been my sophomore year, the 10th grade that all the classes or groups started coming into Griffin High like from Spalding Junior High. And then there's -- we were -- it began to multiply in a sense and have a sense of camaraderie there to help everybody through. Because I said 01:02:00one of the first athletes who played football was Marvin Martin, and he was a great athlete over there. And once they found out that he could play, and they played him, and he broke a lot of Griffin High's record, and that kind of softened things up and made it lot better.

WALKER-HARPS:Was that the Fernando's brother? Was that --

HEAD:Right. I believe it is, yeah.

WALKER-HARPS:Fernando's.

HEAD:Right. And that kind of lightened things up, but it was a good experience.

CUNNINGHAM:Well, your family was definitely supportive of desegregation, but what about the rest of the black community? What's your sense in how everybody else felt about desegregation?

HEAD:Well, I think it was inevitable. They knew that it was coming; 01:03:00it's just that they weren't pushing their kids to go in there. And it was just a certain group, for instance Ms. Denson, her daughter Hanthi, she came over. And so there were the families, and these were some of the families that were leaders in the community saying that "If we're going to do it, we got to sacrifice our kids to step out and do it." And once we were able to test the waters and break the ice, then they came. And then eventually, as I said, a few years later, it was -- everybody was coming.

CUNNINGHAM:But when you first went in, were you concerned about any backlash?

HEAD:Backlash in the sense of? I'm not --

CUNNINGHAM:Backlash from other cultures.

HEAD:Well, the -- well, you know, I was too focused on trying to get 01:04:00through there, too concerned as to what was going on outside of the wall. I was just trying to be safe, hope this environment was safe. And, of course, that was on my dad's watch as far as the backlash and was going on. I think all of us that went there, we represented our community very well. There were no problems or concern that the police had to be called in because of something we did. I'm not -- and I don't know if anything -- any -- no -- nothing came in because of anything that was done to us, I mean physical harm. So I think it was really a peaceful transition for us. And it was -- and I think the record will state that Griffin was in the forefront of a lot of communities around here as 01:05:00far as integrating their schools and their public accommodations. And then that was, you know, a great success due to the contribution of the biracial committee for getting ahead of this and doing exactly what needed to be done because they had the vision to see.

CUNNINGHAM:That's true.

WALKER-HARPS:But you were not -- students were not volunteers to go. They were pretty well selected and were pretty well screened students and teachers, am I right? Were pretty well screened to make sure that they would be the ones who could do what needed to --

HEAD:I don't know if... Either you volunteer or wanted to go because my dad wanted me to go. But as far as screening, I would've much preferred just to have stayed. (laughter) Because -- and I say this because I knew I had 01:06:00some deficiencies. Well, math was one of mine, and I knew that if I was going, for instance, to a situation where I didn't get really -- had issue with some of the fundamentals, what would that do for me? Because I got all these other issues that I've got to deal with, and I will fall back academically. And I don't have the support to help me along over here. I would have to kind of go back and because my mother was a teacher, so that was a big help on the problem that I did have. But I think more so, everybody that went to the various schools volunteered to go, and no one said, "Well, we're going to send him because his academics are great and he can go and handle the thing." Now, in the group that I went over with at Griffin High the first year, there were some 01:07:00seniors that went over that were great in academics. And, obviously, they wanted to go for whatever their reasons were, but I can't speak for them. But everybody gave their best. And I don't think no one can say that, hey, they were ill prepared when they came over here. Just as I had deficiencies in math, I looked over at some of my counterparts, and they had problems too (laughter) they were dealing with. I said, "Why are you in here, you know you need to be in here. You hating on me? (laughter) You need to be listening to the teacher." (laughter) But so it's -- it's no di-- we were all kids, you know? And we were coming up in a time period of change, and some folks didn't want to see change and some people did.

WALKER-HARPS:I have one other question, and you may not know, you may have been too young, yeah, but do you remember the other businesses that were around in your community, immediate community as well as downtown where your dad's business had been -- your family businesses were? Because it was not just the Pressing Club, it was the caf -- well, much of the caf, the sandwich shop, and maybe something else that I don't even know about. But do you remember other businesses that were prominent during that period?

HEAD:Oh, sure. You had Ms. Denson who had her salon, hair salon.

RASHIED:Ralph and Mary's.

HEAD:Yeah, Ralph and Mary --

RASHIED:Ralph and Mary's.

HEAD:He was my barber and then you had several barbers in that -- in the area. Then, you had your cab drivers who had their businesses and what have you. You had the shoeshine parlor there. They -- there were businesses, and of 01:09:00course, the church was there in that area where the cleaners were, and they had a lot of things going on.

WALKER-HARPS:Eighth Street.

HEAD:Eighth Street.

RASHIED:Eighth Street --

HEAD:Right, you have a lot --

RASHIED:-- yeah, that's right, yeah --

HEAD:-- going on during the weekend and what have you. But that's just in that little pocket because if you go into the community, you had your local grocery stores and mom and pop, Simmons --

RASHIED:Simmon's Grocery

HEAD:-- Grocery --

RASHIED:-- in our --

HEAD:-- on Fourth and Tinsley, --

RASHIED:-- neighborhod.

HEAD:-- what have you.

RASHIED:Oh, yeah, that was the -- there was a bamboo shack, yeah, a bamboo shack in our --

CUNNINGHAM:What was sold there?

RASHIED:That was a little -- it's little snacks, cookies and then I think they had a little -- you get sodas and pig feed and (laughter) pickles and different little things like that. And also, I know Snow's? Rib Shack, that was 01:10:00popular over --

HEAD:Around Solomon.

RASHIED:-- on Solomon Street.

HEAD:Yeah, and Touchstone had --

RASHIED:Touchstone had their --

HEAD:-- a lot of eateries, what have you.

RASHIED:They had their own service stations. There were quite a few black businesses, Van Field's service station and I'm just trying to think.

HEAD:Touchstones' gas station.

RASHIED:You know there, they had their gas station.

WALKER-HARPS:Funeral homes.

HEAD:Yeah, the funeral home.

RASHIED:We have Miller's Funeral Home and that -- so there were --

WALKER-HARPS:Crockett's.

RASHIED:The Crockett's yes, yes.

WALKER-HARPS:Stokes.

RASHIED:Stokes, yes, they had the funeral home and beauty shop. They were in business. I'm just trying to think of this -- I don't remember -- forget anybody, but there were quite a number of black businesses in Griffin at that time.

HEAD:Right. And, of course, the auto dealers-- not the dealerships but the auto repair, a lot of businesses. You took your car in to be serviced and what have you in the community.

RASHIED:Yes, yes

WALKER-HARPS:Did either of you go to Bowden's Nursery?

HEAD:No.

RASHIED:No. I know where that was but never -- and I remember when it opened, but no, we did not go to the Bowden's Nursery, so... And that was over in the Fairmont community over in the projects.

WALKER-HARPS:Because your mom was a member of the Confederate Women's Club. Did she speak about that, or do you remember?

RASHIED:Now, that one I don't remember. There were quite number of social clubs in Griffin. My mother, they started what was called the BMLH Club and that was the Busy Matrons Leisure Hour. That was a bridge club. My mother and my grandmother and a number of teachers and different women were a part of that. There were a number of other social clubs. There was the Lacey Oak club and then you had a garden club. And my father, they had their --

WALKER-HARPS:Cavaliers.

RASHIED:-- Caballeros. The Caballeros was started. They also had the Mr. and Mrs. Club that was the married couples clubs. So there was your social Griffin, and there were your --

HEAD:Bridge club.

RASHIED:-- bridge club, well as I said, that'd be on the leisure club is your bridge club. You had your businesswomen that had their clubs. So there were a lot of activities going on in Griffin. The veterans club was the center for entertainment at the VFW Post 8480, and my father Raymond was a veteran and one of the first commander and quartermaster. But that's where all of 01:13:00your entertainment was up at the VFW club sitting up on a hill. And that club, also my father would book a lot of acts for VFW. So we saw the likes of James Brown, Otis Redding, you name it, Little Richard, Gladys Knight & The Pips. All of these people came through Griffin, as they say, cut their teeth right there in Griffin. And I would always ask my dad to get autographs of people when they would come to the club, and it was quite a popular spot. We didn't have any other entertainment. Of course, I wasn't able to go. This is in my mother and father's day, and they were -- you know, would go in and enjoy that. But there was -- that was fond memories of knowing that these famous people 01:14:00would come through with their acts right in little old Griffin, Georgia, yeah.

WALKER-HARPS:You'll often hear people today talk about Raymond's prominence with the VFW and the professionals, musicians who came to Griffin as a result of him, his work, and Jimmy Holland and (overlapping dialogue).

RASHIED:Yes, yes, Mr. Jimmy Holland, a musician, and he and my daddy were great friends. And they -- there were so many memories there that I wish that I had recorded from those days when the club was the hot spot in Griffin. I'm just trying to think of some of the other acts, but if you name some of these -- Ike & Tina Turner Revue, that's one. I had -- did a Motown Revue for the Fairmont Alumni Association for one of our reunions and put on a Motown show. 01:15:00And I took a letter that came from a booking agency out in Texas where they had written to daddy and they had included this flyer about the Ike & Tina Revue. And they were getting started back in those days, and they were right over there at the VFW. So that was another one of Daddy's favorite places, so he did a lot of work over there with the vets. He was a veteran of World War II, and he served in the Pacific Theater. He went to Hawaii, and I think he did about two years, but he went out right after college. He was drafted. And in fact, all of my brother -- his brothers also were vets, so they were all members 01:16:00of the veterans club, the VFW.

BAUSKE:Can you turn up?--

WALKER-HARPS:One of --

BAUSKE:Go ahead, I'm sorry.

WALKER-HARPS:One of his other sacrifices -- I consider a sacrifice -- was his serving as the first African American elected city commissioner. At that time, it would have been a sacrifice. It was not something that was common to us, and I'm sure it was not an easy deal for him. But we remember and appreciate him for having given to us -- that service for us rather.

RASHIED:Well, thank you. My father, I always think of him as just a hometown boy. He loved Griffin, and he was a regular person, a very even-tempered man, very patient, very kind. And so when the opportunity came 01:17:00available, I understand that he was drafted in a sense to run for office. But he would not have shied away from the opportunity to do so because, as my brother said, they were testing the waters on a lot of fronts at that time. And that was about 1968, and the office for city commissioner, they wanted to try to see if we could get some blacks into office. My father knew that there were a lot of needs in the black community. You know with sidewalks and all types of services that we just did not have. And he, I feel, was the right man for that 01:18:00job. As I look back, that was his calling to do so. He said that he wanted to see Mr. A. C. Touchstone that was a local businessman and prominent in the black community, wanted him to run, but Mr. Touchstone thought Daddy should, and he did. And I remember my dad telling the story how he went over to the garment plant and passed out some handbills and cards to a lot of women over there. You see, he had about 500 and went in there and passed them out to all the ladies, and I guess he was feeling pretty good about that. And then he decided to go and thank the manager for letting them come into the plant to pass them out. He said he saw all of those business cards on the floor, you know just about all 500 of them. He said probably they had tossed them. So it took a couple of 01:19:00tries. Sixty-eight and '69, he did not win, but by 1972 was the right timing, and he became the first black city commissioner for the city of Griffin at that time.

WALKER-HARPS:Well, he helped to make it the right time because I'm not sure if his signature is on the lawsuit, but I know that he worked with those very diligently to bring about or to outlaw all the process of having to elect by at-large, the single-member districts. And that allowed the opportunity to exist so that we could elect an African American, and that was the door opening that brought in all of the African American who served as (county?) and city commissioners.

RASHIED:Yes, yes. It -- you're absolutely right. You have played such 01:20:00a major part in that story also, Mrs. Harps, to me-- be commended also for your service to the community. I hope you've been interviewed because she's been on the forefront forever as I was talking to my brother about her work in the NAACP. I know that my father thought the world of you in terms of your works and just as a person and as a teacher also, one of the teachers that was most admired in our school. And so we have to thank you for all of your contributions --

WALKER-HARPS:Well, thank you.

RASHIED:-- also.

WALKER-HARPS:Thank you. But Raymond was my backbone. I spent many hours down there either sitting talking or standing at the counter talking. When 01:21:00I would go in, Phillip will usually say, "Raymond, Ms. Walker's here" I'm standing around the counter, say, "Ms. Walker's here." (laughs) You know (I'm glad?) to do that. I was there for advice and assistance or whatever, and he was always willing to give and then to share. I will always be indebted to him and to the services that your mom did as being a very well-known, solid teacher.

RASHIED:Thank you.

WALKER-HARPS:Yeah. She was select-- when time to select our outstanding teacher, she was in my number.

RASHIED:Thank you very much.

HEAD:Thanks.

RASHIED:We appreciate that. My father Raymond Jr., he had that about himself and often go to the shop, as I said, Cleanwell, and someone would be sitting next to that sewing machine talking. He had a mild manner, a way of talking, 01:22:00and people seem to enjoy just talking and having conversations. I think my brother has that gift. I always enjoy hearing stories that he tells. And my father also had that gift, and he'd be sewing at the sewing machine, and someone would be sitting beside him, and they were talking. He was very generous with his time and his gifts, and as I said, he was just a hometown boy. And as they say a homeboy -- town boy that made good at -- I'd like to think of him like that. He loved the city of Griffin, and he loved the people of Griffin right up until the time in his last years. Eighty-nine years old when he passed. I will be taking Daddy to church, and he'd have his Tuskegee cap on. He 01:23:00loved his school, and he loved his school, and we buried him with his hat in the casket. But Daddy would be sitting on the passenger side, and he'd see some of the local home folk on the street or something. He'd raise that one finger up to let them know that he was acknowledging them, and that was just the type of person that he was. He --

WALKER-HARPS:A very giving person.

RASHIED:Very giving. I --

WALKER-HARPS:Never wanted anything for himself. He's always going to welfare, to (Medic-- to Medicaid?).

RASHIED:Hmm, well, I thank you. He was very generous and is giving. There was a man that would come to the house a lot of times, and he'd want a little loan, and Daddy always would be very accommodating with his gifts. To whom much is given, most -- much is expected and so he certainly lived up to that. 01:24:00He wanted to give back to his hometown, and I think he did his very best and so did his brothers and father and mother. And my mother and the aunts, the whole family gave us or left us a wonderful legacy, and it's just our prayer to try to live as good a life as we can in memory of them and all that they left for us.

WALKER-HARPS:Yeah. Well, we appreciate this, sitting here with Raymond III, (laughter) reminding me -- I almost came to tears because it just took me back some years.

HEAD:Right.

WALKER-HARPS:You're so much like your dad; I can almost see him in you. It's wonderful.

CUNNINGHAM:Is there anything else you-all would like to share that we haven't covered?

RASHIED:I'm trying to --

HEAD:Well, no. I just really appreciate the opportunity to express something that pretty much has been held in check for many years. I've never had the opportunity to really tell, you know, a side of my story other than to my sister here of what really went on and... But it wasn't all about me. The other people that walked that path with me, you know I respect their sacrifices. And when I do run into them, we'll talk about it, and I let them know that we did something that we didn't think that could be done. And we all ended up having 01:26:00great careers. And we have been blessed since that time. And so when I look back at what my dad wanted, I can understand the day why it is the requested that of me. It has made me a better person, and that I appreciate.

WALKER-HARPS:I wonder who had fired. You filled the gap that I was trying to locate someone who actually had those experiences.

HEAD:Right.

WALKER-HARPS:And I didn't -- so like I said well, I thought, maybe Raymond Head Jr. was one of those persons, and I said, "Okay, I'm going to have Cheryl with me there also," yeah, sure.

HEAD:Right.

WALKER-HARPS:We appreciate it so much. I mean you don't realize just how much you helped fill the gap in terms of history for this community. And as we said, it will be here for your grandchildren or granddau-- their 01:27:00grandchildren forever and ever we hope. And thank you.

CUNNINGHAM:Before we wrap up, I just want to touch on one item. I understand that your dad was the first African American General Griffin. Do you-all recall being -- him being named that by the community? And if so, can you tell us a little bit about that?

RASHIED:Yes, I do recall it. And that was quite an honor for my father. There was a General Griffin Ball, and I did attend the ball. And my father, we found him a uniform that he could wear. I think that he thought it was the best that would exemplify how he thought General Griffin would look. And he had a big hat, and he had a sword. And my mother had on like a southern belle gown, and we were at the General Griffin Ball. But that was a very high honor to be 01:28:00chosen as General Griffin, and a black General Griffin at that because, as we know, that is the founder of our beloved city. And so the General Griffin group chose him that -- bestowed that honor upon him that year. And he... And when they had their other activities in the city, they would wear their red coats, and they had their red blazers. And so when my father passed, they were all sitting on a row there at the funeral services, and they were all really, really nice gentlemen. And always Daddy was quite fond of them and thought 01:29:00highly of one or two --

WALKER-HARPS:Yeah, Elmer George.

RASHIED:Thank you. I can remember Elmer, but I could not remember his -- Mr. Elmer George was a very --

WALKER-HARPS:Very special --

RASHIED:-- very lovely man.

WALKER-HARPS:-- man.

RASHIED:Yes, he was.

WALKER-HARPS:And to meet him because of your dad.

RASHIED:Well, he was a very nice man. Yes, I had talked to him on a couple of occasions, and thank you for giving his last name. I didn't want to mention the first name; I couldn't remember the last. But that was a highlight of Daddy's career, so to speak, to be chosen to be General Griffin. And when they erected the General Griffin statue downtown in front of the bank, -- well, it's not the bank anymore but the city -- it's at the city of Griffin building down there -- Daddy was there. He had on his General Griffin jacket. He was in a 01:30:00wheelchair by this time, but he was right there with his General Griffin -- other General Griffins, and that was quite a special moment for him --

WALKER-HARPS:At that time, --

RASHIED:-- and honor.

WALKER-HARPS:-- it was tremendous. It was a very, very special because even though we have black now, but at that time -- period of time it was unheard of.

RASHIED:Yes.

WALKER-HARPS:I mean we were astonished in the community.

RASHIED:Yes.

WALKER-HARPS:What year was that, around if not exact?

RASHIED:Let me see a moment. I had a copy of something that may have had that on it. I didn't have a copy of that page, but I -- that was -- let me think. That would've been maybe between... My father passed in 2010, so I'm going 01:31:00to say somewhere maybe 2007, '08, or '09, somewhere along in there.

CUNNINGHAM:That he was the general?

RASHIED:No, not when -- no, no. I'm getting confused. That would have been early -- let's see, all right, oh, gee -- when -- late '90s, somewhere in there, late, late '90s or --

WALKER-HARPS:It's quite a while.

RASHIED:It's been quite a while ago, sometime in the '90s, yes. And yes, that was quite an event.

CUNNINGHAM:Well, is there anything else that you-all would like to share to wrap up?

RASHIED:Well, as my brother had stated, I'd like to say thank you to all of you, to the committee for the African American History -- Oral History Project. It has been quite an honor to sit and talk about our memories. 01:32:00There's so much that I could never tell once you're telling your story. And we touched on a little of my story and then you've got your father's story, your mother's story, and all of these different stories that make one. And there's so many branches on the family tree that you could never tell the story. But we are thankful that we had the parents and the (four?) parents that we had that have brought us to this day. You can't do anything alone. As the song goes, "No man is an island, no man stands alone." And so it has taken a lot of people to bring us all to this moment. But, again, we're thankful and appreciate you. My father lived by a very simple rule, and that was to treat everyone with a 01:33:00sense of fairness and a measure of respect, and that is what takes us through life. We have not accomplished any great things. I'll never accomplish what my father has accomplished, but we live by that rule. And the Bible just has a very simple rule, to love one another, and if we can do that, then I think we will be -- we'll be okay, but we're still trying to learn that. We're in some very troubling times today, but it's a very simple rule. If we can just treat each other fairly and respect each other, I think we will do so much better. And those are the things that helped us to get to this point. And we 01:34:00were a lot closer back during those days as kids, and those were happier times for us, a lot more carefree. But we continue, we that are left behind, we grow older and wiser, and we continue to try to live out the legacy that we were left. And that's pretty much it.

HEAD:Well, I think my sister pretty much wraps it up. I again thank you all for this opportunity. And we are from -- our dad and mom that left us a great legacy that we are passing on to our children, and what have you. And as we are still getting a little up in age now, I like to end it by saying, and we still rise, thank you.

CUNNINGHAM:Thank you so much, both of you thank you so much for your time.

RASHIED:You're so welcome, so welcome.

BAUSKE:And all -- what did I miss? Oh. (laughter)

(overlapping dialogue)

WALKER-HARPS:We talked --

END OF AUDIO FILE