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Rusk D, Interview with Dean Rusk, circa 1985

Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
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00:00:00 - World War II decisions concerning alliances with Indochina

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Partial Transcript: Some critics have charged that our Vietnam policy was wrong from its inception, that the real mistake was made at the very beginnings of this policy in the late 1940s when we began to align ourselves with France.

Segment Synopsis: Rusk discusses the American foreign policy with Indochina during World War II, including a relationship with Ho Chi Minh that involved sending "arms and American cigarettes" to his troops. He further talks on the relationship between Franklin D. Roosevelt and Winston Churchill concerning foreign policy in Indochina. Rusk then explains the origins of the Southeast Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO), and the factors influencing the inception of the "regional collective organization."

Keywords: Communism; Dwight D. Eisenhower; Eisenhower Administration; Eisenhower security treaties; Eisenhower treaties; Franklin Delano Roosevelt; French imperialism; General Stilwell; Ho Chi Minh; Indochina; Joseph Warren Stilwell; Lord Louis Mountbatten; NATO; North Atlantic Treaty Organization; President Truman; SEATO; South East Asia Treaty Organization; The Geneva Conferences; Truman Administration; U.S. foreign policy; Vietnam; Vietnam war; Vietnamese nationalism; Winston Churchill; World War II; colonial Asia; imperialism

00:06:43 - The Office of Strategic Services and the China-Burma-India Theater

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Partial Transcript: Getting back to your days in CBI, let's just deal specifically with your role and your work in that theater during those years. Were you aware of the OSS mission to establish an espionage and intelligence network there?

Segment Synopsis: Rusk discusses the actions of General Stilwell during World War II, and the actions of the employees of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS). He explains in detail the purpose of the design of the China-Burma-India shoulder patch.

Keywords: Abbot Low Moffatt; American intelligence; Archimedes L.A. Patti; British imperialism; CBI shoulder patch; Chester William Minitz; Chiang Kai-shek; China-Burma-India Theater; China-Burma-India shoulder patch; Dean Acheson; Dean Gooderham Acheson; Douglass MacArthur; Franklin D. Roosevelt; General Stilwell; Ho Chi Minh; Imperialism; Indian nationalism; Major Frank White; NATO; North Atlantic Treaty Organization; OSS; Office of Strategic Services; Richard Clement Attlee; Sidney Dillon Ripley II; The Marshall Plan; The Smithsonian; William Joseph Donovan; Winston Churchill; World War II; espionage

00:17:13 - Ho Chi Minh and Laos during the Kennedy Administration

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Partial Transcript: Were you aware at the time that it happened that Ho Chi Minh, from late 1945 to the end of 46, repeatedly cabled the American government, the White House, asking for American recognition, often expressing his request in terms of the principles of the Atlantic Charter, this type of thing?

Segment Synopsis: Rusk talks on the relationship the United States had with Ho Chi Minh during "the Kennedy years," and further discusses the interest in Laos, a "turn-over in responsibility" given to John F. Kennedy by Dwight D. Eisenhower on the day before Kennedy's inauguration.

Keywords: China-Burma-India Theater; Clark McAdams Clifford; Dean Acheson; Dwight D. Eisenhower; Ho Chi Minh; John F. Kennedy; Johnson Administration; Kennedy Administration; Laos; NATO; North Atlantic Treaty; North Atlantic Treaty Organization; Rio Pact; Robert Strange McNamara; SEATO; South East Asia Treaty; South East Asia Treaty Organization; U.S. foreign affairs; U.S. foreign policy; Vietnam War

00:21:03 - Concerns of Indochina, France, and The Netherlands

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Partial Transcript: Did you get good intelligence and good estimates as to what the complexities of that situation in Indochina were at the time that all this happened?

Segment Synopsis: Rusk talks on the relationship between the United States and the French and Dutch, and the involvement of both countries in colonizing or granting independence to various countries in Indochina. He further discusses the actions of President Truman in the Korean War, and the motivations for intruding the Sixth Fleet between Taiwan and China. This discussion includes the developing relationship between the United States and France.

Keywords: Charles Andre Joseph Mario de Gualle; Charles de Gualle; Dean Acheson; Dutch imperialism; French colonialism; French imperialism; George Marshall; Harry S. Truman; Imperialism; Indochina; Korean War; Red scare; Secretary George Catlett Marshall; The Marshall Plan; Winston Churchill; colonialism; communism; communist China; communist scare

00:27:00 - Truman Administration and aiding France with Indochina

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Partial Transcript: Okay, can you remember at what point, and I assume it would have been the late 1940s or perhaps 1950s, that you more or less shifted from one view to the other in terms of our actual policy?

Segment Synopsis: Rusk talks about the relationship of the U.S. government to France in aiding with their control of Indochina, and his own personal views on whether American troops should assist the French in Indochina.

Keywords: 1940s; 1950s; Cambodia; Dean Acheson; Eisenhower administration; Franklin D. Roosevelt; French government; French imperialism; John Foster Dulles; Laos; North Atlantic Treaty Organization; Red scare; Rockefeller Foundation; The Marshall Plan; Truman Administration; Vietnam; Vietnam War; Vietnamese nationalism; anti-colonialism; anti-communism; communist scare

00:33:40 - NATO Treaty and SEATO Treaty obligations

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Partial Transcript: That's interesting. But the NATO Treaty and the Southeast Asia Treaty, legally they say things that are very vague about the obligations of the United States to come to the aid of threatened states. They say something to the effect, that shall do all necessary things, or shall take whatever action is necessary--

Segment Synopsis: Rusk discusses the "vague" language within both the North American Treaty and the Southeastern Asian Treaty, and the call to "act to meet the common danger."

Keywords: Congressional powers; NATO; North Atlantic Treaty Organization; SEATO; South East Asia Treaty Organization

00:36:48 - Persuading the French to leave Indochina

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Partial Transcript: Pop, this is obviously a real tangled and confusing period in our foreign relations: Indochina in the late 1940s and early fifties, and I think all accounts suggest that you guys really were aware of a lot of the complexities.

Segment Synopsis: Rusk talks on what he calls the "seduction" of the French government by the U.S., or in other words the process of persuading the French to leave Indochina without publicly demanding such action. He further discusses his relationships with Ho Chi Minh and various Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians who may have or did oppose France and their rule over Indochina.

Keywords: British colonialism; Clement Attlee; Dean Rusk; Dean Rusk (The American secretaries of state and their diplomacy); Dwight D. Eisenhower; Eisenhower Administration; Far Eastern Bureau; India; John F. Kennedy; John Foster Dulles; Johnson Administration; Kennedy Administration; Red scare; South East Asia Treaty Organization; The Marshall Plan; Vietnam War; Warren Cohen; Warren I. Cohen; Winston Churchill; World War II; anti-communism; communist scare; communist threat; ethnocentrism; massive retaliation; mutual security treaties; nuclear war

00:43:34 - The Kennedy Administration, Laos, and SEATO

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Partial Transcript: Well, if I could continue on the beginnings of the Kennedy Administration for a moment, I say the more we looked at Laos, the less inviting it came to be to put American troops in there.

Segment Synopsis: Rusk discusses the Laos Accords of 1962 and the Geneva Conference in which these accords were determined and signed. He further explains how these actions fit into the role of the U.S. to "act to meet the common danger," as determined by the Southeastern Asian Treaty.

Keywords: Alec Douglas-Home; Andrei Andreevich Gromyko; Charles de Gualle; Chen Yi; Chou En-lai; Communist China; John F. Kennedy; John Foster Dulles; Kennedy Administration; Laos; Laos Accords; Laos Accords of 1962; Laos Conference; Martin Hillenbrand; Nikita Khrushchev; North Vietnamese; Pathet Lao; Soviet Union; The Berlin Crisis; The Berlin Wall; The Cuban Missile Crisis; Vienna Summit

00:55:24 - Avoiding the Vietnam War

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Partial Transcript: Getting back to 1946, I am obsessed with the tragedy of how close we came to avoiding what later happened.

Segment Synopsis: Rusk talks on the relationship between the U.S. and France leading up to the Vietnam War, and how adopting an anti-colonial foreign policy stance may have drastically changed "what later happened."

Keywords: 1940s America; 1950s America; French colonialism; French imperialism; Geneva Conference; Hanoi; Hanoi regime; Harry S. Truman; Indochina; Indochinese independence; Joseph Stalin; North Vietnam; South Vietnam; The Cold War; The Korean War; The Marshall Plan; The Vietnam War; V-J Day; anti-colonialism; anti-war protests