00:00:00STUECK: Good Morning. It is June 14, 2006 we are in the Floyd Veterans
Memorial Building in Atlanta, Georgia to interview Commissioner of Veterans
Services Pete Wheeler. My name is Bill Stueck and I am a historian at the
University of Georgia, and my colleague Jim Cobb is also a historian at the
University of Georgia. We will be asking Commissioner Wheeler questions. The
oral history interview is for the Richard B. Russell Library for Political
Research and Studies which is on the campus of the University of Georgia. Good
Morning Commissioner.
WHEELER: Good morning and welcome. We are happy to see anybody from the
University of Georgia. It brings back many fond memories. I lived in a little
00:01:00town down there near the University of Georgia, Crawford. The original Crawford;
much bigger than the Crawford in Texas; we got a stop light there and they have
a blinking light in Texas. You remember Crawford; let me give you a little about
Crawford before we move onto anything else. I am so proud of Crawford. William
H. Crawford, you two professors know who he was. He was an ambassador to France
and he is the only man that Napoleon Bonaparte ever bowed to. He was a great
American. And we have other Crawford's now down in Texas, and I have had an
opportunity to kid the President about it. We have twelve more people than they
do in Texas, and we are the original. We are proud of Georgia. We have a stop
light and they have a blinking light down there. I can go on in detail on that,
but that ain't why we are here this morning.
STUECK: Can you tell us your date of birth and you have already told us your
00:02:00place of birth?
WHEELER: I can tell you this: I am going to quote something from Douglas
MacArthur. He had on his wall, while he was over in Tokyo and we occupied Japan
following World War II, and I am not going into details, but he had this on his
wall. He said, "You are as young as your faith, and as old as doubt, and you are
young as your self-confidence." And "you are young as your faith and you're
young as your self-confidence. You are old as your fear and I have no fear. You
are young as your hope and you're old as your despair." I don't have any of
them. I am very happy where I am and I have enjoyed every minute of the work
that I do here. I was born in Albany, Georgia, Dorothy County, but I grew up and
I was raised in the great city of Crawford, Georgia where I just told you a
00:03:00minute ago.
STUECK: Can you tell us the schools you attended?
WHEELER: Yes, and I might say before I do that, I attended Crawford High
School, which doesn't exist anymore. I was president of the Senior Class in
1939. Living there, near the University, I had the opportunity to attend the
very first football game played in Sanford Stadium when it opened, named after
Chancellor S.D. Sanford. He was Chancellor of the University system when I was
there. Harmon Caldwell was president--and living in Athens also gave me the
opportunity--Franklin D. Roosevelt came down on the stadium once. A car drove
up, he and Governor E.D. Rivers who was governor of Georgia at that time--And I
had the opportunity to see the President then and he went on to Barnesville by
train and came out against Walter George, who was a U.S. Senator then, and the
00:04:00reason he was against Walter George was he wanted an enlarged Supreme Court in
the United States of America--add more numbers so that everything he'd do would
be Constitutional. Senator George opposed it. I can remember that day when he
endorsed another candidate against Senator George and Senator George said these
words, "Mr. President, I accept your challenge," and Senator George won. Senator
George was a great man. He lost a son in World War II and is very sympathetic to
veterans and very responsible for starting the GI Bill which educated many World
War II veterans who would not have had an education had it not been for the GI
Bill and education.
STUECK: So you graduated from High School in 1939?
WHEELER: That is correct.
STUECK: And you went straight to the University of Georgia?
WHEELER: No, I didn't. I went to Emory at Oxford and then Emory at Valdosta
which does not exist anymore. I think they closed it when I left. I transferred
00:05:00as quick as I could to the University of Georgia and graduated there in 1943.
While I was there of course World War II started, December 7, 1941. I was at the
University and I was taking ROTC and I was in the Cavalry, riding horses with
boots. In fact, I fell of a horse in front of the ROTC building over there when
we dedicated a memorial to veterans and others fairly recently. It has been a
great honor to have been at Georgia. While I was there I was [in] ROTC and in
order to remain there we had to sign up to the Reserves in 1942 to complete our
education, there at the University. When I graduated in 1943 we were immediately
00:06:00called to active duty. And at that time I went to active duty for the U.S. Army.
I had gotten out of the Calvary and I had enough of horses. I remained in the
Army until 1946 and then I was in the Reserves and the National Guard and I
remained there until 1978. And I retired from the military in 1978.
STUECK: Can you tell us what your major was at the University of Georgia?
WHEELER: Well, you might say it was ROTC. (laughter) We had to maintain a
certain average to stay there, otherwise we would go right into the service and
I wanted to make sure I finished ROTC first. It was education, B.S. in
education, and later I went to law school here in Atlanta. And while I was
00:07:00working with the Federal Government I went to night school, John Marshall Law
School at night. First job I had in 1946 after getting out of the service was
with the Federal Government. A government agency known as OPA: Office of Price
Administration. That was part of World War II because keeping prices under
control--you had to keep--everything was control: price control. I was in lumber
enforcement and I had eight states from Florida up to Virginia where we visited
and tried to check and make sure that the price of lumber did not exceed the
amount that the government allowed. Then when that ended, the price control on
lumber and other things ended, we still had rent control. And I was made area
00:08:00rent director for northwest Georgia out of Rome, Georgia, where I lived in a
hotel four nights a week and then back in Atlanta that night. And then of course
I came to the Department of Veterans Services. I had a good friend that was
Governor at the time. I knew him when I was a student at Athens. He was not a
student. He was practicing law with his father then. Herman Talmadge. I knew him
well and I became associated with his administration then and I have been
here--this is my fourteenth term and I am enjoying every minutes of it and I
enjoy it because we are helping people. If I was collecting income tax I would
have quit years ago or retired, but I am helping people. There is an old hymn by
the way that I remember as a child, and I still have it with me and I give it to
00:09:00new members of the staff when they come in and it is "Help somebody today,
somebody along life's way." No, I picked up the wrong one, got the right one
now. "Look all around you find someone in need. Help somebody today though it is
a little neighborly deed, help somebody today. Many are waiting [for] a kind and
loving word. Help somebody today." Some veterans we are unable to help, but we
can listen, and that is very important and try to get them all the benefits to
which they are entitled. And no veteran's benefit is automatic. You gotta apply
for them and it is our job to help them apply and let them know about it where
they can apply for all the benefits they are entitled. We like to point out the
00:10:00fact that we have done quite well in Georgia on veteran's benefits. Compared to
other states we have fewer veterans, but we are bringing in more money than five
other states that have more veterans.
STUECK: Can you--before we get too far away from World War II, can you tell us
where you served in World War II?
WHEELER: I served mostly in California, training men for combat, and if it
hadn't been for the atomic bomb Iam sure I would have been in the South
Pacific. But we were training people for combat missions, and that was my job in
World War II.
STUECK: Now you were released in 1946?
WHEELER: That is correct.
STUECK: Do you remember when in '46?
00:11:00
WHEELER: I believe it March of '46.
STUECK: Ok. But a lot of folks were released earlier than that.
WHEELER: We were released at different times, yes. That is correct.
STUECK: So, why were you a little later?
WHEELER: Well, there is an old Army saying that we used to teach our people,
"Yours is not to ask why, but to do or die." I did not ask why I went out when I
was supposed to go out, and I didn't question anything about it other than I
wanted to remain in the Reserves, which I did, and I became a member of the
National Guard when Governor Vandiver was the Adjutant General. Governor
Vandiver, by the way, was a senior when I was a freshman at the University of
Georgia, and we were close friends. And he was the campaign manager along with
Roy Harris when Talmadge was elected Governor, and Vandiver was Adjutant General
00:12:00when I transferred over into the Guard and remained until 1978. Also, when I was
in the University of Georgia Carl Sanders was a freshman, and he was Bulldog
Williams's freshman. Sanders was there on a football scholarship his first year,
and the freshmen had to wait on the upperclassmen, and he was Bulldog Williams's
freshman. Bulldog was a good friend of mine. We would send Carl down to get the
Coca-Cola's for us to drink. You notice I did say "Coca-Cola"--holy water.
STUECK: Can you talk a little bit more about what the Commissioner of the
Veterans Affairs did in 1949, and I assume it is an appointed position?
00:13:00
WHEELER: No, it is an elected position.
STUECK: Elected Position.
WHEELER: Elected by a board, a constitutional board. We have a seven-person
constitutional board. You have to be a resident of Georgia and a veteran, a
wartime veteran. And the board elects the Commissioner. And I have been
fortunate enough to be elected fourteen times by different board members through
the years.
STUECK: So it is a four-year term?
WHEELER: That is correct.
STUECK: And how is the board chosen?
WHEELER: The board, the Governor gets one appointment each year, and is chosen
the same way as the Board of Regents is chosen, by the Governor. The Governor
gets one appointment each year and there are seven members of the board, and it
is a constitutional board. And it's working out very well and we think we have
the best operation in the nation because we go out and make sure the veteran
00:14:00gets the benefit. Since I have been here, we've had one major project a year
that we have worked on. When I first came in there were ten thousand patients in
Milledgeville. It was called then the "insane asylum." We knew there were many
veterans there at Milledgeville, but they were scattered out among ten thousand
people. The first thing we did when I got here was to make sure that we
identified all the veterans in Milledgeville and then moved them into one
building where we could work with them and get them the benefits to which they
might have been entitled. As soon as we were able to do that through the
Legislature, going through the House and Senate and Governor, we set aside a
building at Milledgeville where we did that, which is now a most beautiful
facility, one of the beautiful facilities. We have about five or six hundred
00:15:00veterans there now receiving nursing home care and domiciliary care, and we also
have the most beautiful Alzheimer's unit in America. The Alzheimer's people
designed it where you can walk all you want to walk inside and outside the
building and it doesn't look like a prison--it looks like a Ritz Carlton Hotel
lobby with beautiful shrubbery outside and there is an entrance where you walk
in and out. The Alzheimer's people who are bed-ridden--they can be cared for in
a nursing home, because they cannot get out of bed to harm somebody. The walking
man or woman with swinging arms could hit someone in the nursing home, and
therefore that is the most unmet medical need I think in America today, is the
00:16:00care and treatment of the walking Alzheimer's person, [who is] in a hurry to get
there, not knowing where they are when they get there, and then hurry to go on.
We have a beautiful unit there in Milledgeville that we are very proud of, and
we have recreation for them and we have an outpatient medical care
treatment--the VA does that--they come in there to the doctor once a week and we
are very proud of it. Now in Augusta during the Sanders administration and then
the Maddox administration, we opened the first state veterans nursing home in
America, operated by the state to treat the veterans, with federal and state
funds to build it. And it is built right across from the Medical College of
00:17:00Georgia. And you get more care there than you get in any VA, well, any hospital
in the world, I guess, because the Medical College operates it for us by
contract, and the top specialists in that field are through that nursing home
every day. It is right across the street from the Medical College of Georgia and
we are extremely proud of that. We're also proud of the fact that Georgia is the
only state in the Union that does not charge veterans anything--Georgia
residents, they have to be from Georgia, legal residents of Georgia and
veterans. We don't charge a veteran anything for care and treatment. Every other
state does get something out of the veterans for their care and treatment, but
we don't in Georgia and most of our funds that we appropriated in the state go
to Augusta, where we have about two hundred veterans down there and over five
hundred in Milledgeville.
STUECK: So your job--
00:18:00
WHEELER: That is one phase of it.
STUECK: In many ways, is to use both state and federal agencies, so we have
what we call GI bills that are passed periodically by the Federal Government.
WHEELER: I am glad you mentioned the GI Bill. The Georgia Department of
Veterans Services is a state approval agency for all veterans' educational
training, and it may come as a shock for you to know that the University of
Georgia--where you represent the University of Georgia--we have to approve the
University of Georgia and we check there once a month to see that you are
doing--we have a check list and we check if you are training veterans at the
University of Georgia and any other school in Georgia that trains veterans. We
have to approve that and check on it to see that they are getting what they are
entitled to. The reason we have to do that, some schools, I won't name any of
00:19:00them now, but they have been prosecuted because the veteran wasn't required to
go to school, they would just give them the money. Some people were sent to
prison for that. We have a state-approved agency. We are number one in the
nation for veterans' on-the-job training. We train businesses, we approve
businesses all over the state to train veterans and the veteran receives this GI
money for being trained for the position. So we are the state approval that is
one of our functions here in the Department of Veteran Services, in addition to
the nursing home and the domiciliary and the Alzheimer's unit and, as I
mentioned a minute ago, we always have one project--at least one big one a year.
We built the most beautiful cemetery I think in the world in Milledgeville, a
00:20:00state cemetery with federal funds, one hundred percent federal funds. The land
was transferred from the forestry commission over to us. It is on the Carl
Vinson Highway near our nursing home in Milledgeville. We have a chapel there
with stained glass windows in it pointing up. The architect brought it up to me
and it had square windows and I said "No, we want them pointed up, give some
people an idea where they ought to be trying to go"--although we can't tell
them--we can point the direction and make them think about it. We have a
beautiful lake behind the cemetery, we have a coliseum area, we have an office
there and we have a clarion that plays a hundred hymns, and "Amazing Grace" is
the most requested of all hymns to be played during the funeral. Since we have
00:21:00completed that, many veterans have been buried there every day in Milledgeville.
We are now working on a new cemetery, establishing a new cemetery at Glenville,
Georgia, near Fort Stewart. Fort Stewart as you know is a very active military
base and there are a lot of retirees there. And we are establishing a state
cemetery there. Last Sunday afternoon, the Secretary of Veterans Affairs and I
had the honor of dedicating a new cemetery, about forty miles north of Atlanta,
[at] Canton. Seven hundred seventy-five acres of land was donated by a wealthy
Georgian who served and landed in Normandy on D-Day, Scott Hudgens. Scott came
00:22:00to the office one day and said, "I landed in Normandy on D-Day." He's a
billionaire by the way, and he said "I went back over there recently to visit
the graves of those who were killed the day we landed," which was sixty-two
years ago June 6 this year. And he said, "I had a vision while I was there and
looking out you can see the English Channel, and I have land in Georgia that we
can do the same thing with overlooking Lake Allatoona. Seven hundred
seventy-five acres of land. Nobody has ever lived on this land, not even
Indians. There are streams running through there. The river--the water is as
clear as the water you drink." It is a beautiful place, we dedicated that last
Sunday. It is a beautiful place. We have a project all the time that we are
00:23:00working on and that is what makes it very interesting to be in this work. We are
helping people and getting them what they deserve. As I mentioned a minute ago,
no veteran's benefit is automatic. You got to know about it then you got to
apply for it. That is our job: to make sure that every Georgia veteran gets
every benefit, state and federal, that he may be entitled to, and we have been
very successful in doing that.
STUECK: We try to be a little more specific on the distinction between a
federal benefit and a state benefit. Now, you talked about Georgia being the one
state where all the expenses for a disabled veteran are covered.
WHEELER: That's in a nursing home situation, the state nursing homes, which the
federal government pays part of the cost, and we have a contract with them to
00:24:00pay part of the cost, and the state pays part of the cost for the operation.
Every other state has one and we just happen to be the only state that doesn't charge.
STUECK: Ok, now the Federal Government is when we talk about the GI Bills. We
historians tend to focus on education and housing, low cost mortgages and so
forth. Can you talk about where the state kind of picks up from what the federal
government is doing in terms of funding?
WHEELER: Well, we have the same tax exemptions in the state for homes and
wholly financed a hundred percent by the VA. One hundred percent disabled
veterans--there are many statutes on the state law books that give us the right
to give them certain things like hunting and fishing licenses. The driver's
license for example, to drive an automobile or a truck, the veteran gets the
00:25:00benefit of a free driver's license in Georgia if you are an honorably discharged
veteran in war time service and we approve it. And then the state, they have
changed several times who issues the drivers licenses. It used to be the state
patrol, but now it is another agency. We approve it and they get a free driver's
license. There are many other benefits they get, if you are disabled in any way,
as much as ten percent, you are entitled to go into state parks for a reduced
fee, and many other state benefits.
STUECK: When you talk about all the buildings that you have had a role in being
built, were those built predominantly from federal or state funding?
WHEELER: Both state and federal. The building as I mentioned before in Augusta,
00:26:00we had Carl Vinson, Congressman Carl Vinson, a great American and Congressman,
introduce the legislation and gave state money. We got half of the appropriation
for building nursing homes in Augusta and he was expecting that to be built in
Milledgeville, his home. And he called me one day and he said, "I got the
legislation through." First, when he called you on the phone, I am talking about
Carl Vinson the great American Congressman from Georgia, when he calls you on
the telephone, the first thing he would say is, "Are you for me or against me?"
I said, "I am for you Mr. Vinson." He said, "Well do so-and-so then." That was
the way he started a conversation. If you called him, he would answer the phone,
"Alright." That is the way he would answer the telephone: "Alright." But anyway
00:27:00he was very upset with me because we went--Carl Sanders was Governor by the way
and he wanted it built in Augusta across from the Medical College. Vinson wanted
it in Milledgeville, but the governor controlled the state funds that are
necessary, so it was built in Augusta. But I told him that the first one we
built after that would be in Milledgeville, and we did, we built the Carl Vinson
building there where we house the veterans that need nursing care and then later
we dedicated one, the Richard B. Russell building. I think the last picture that
the Senator had made, when we took him a copy of that, I mean a picture of that
00:28:00building up there to show him. Mr. Vinson passed there one day and passed by it
one day and looked at both buildings and called me on the phone said, "I passed
my building and passed Russell's building this morning and I noticed that my
name is in smaller letters than his. Why is that?" I said, "It will be changed,
Mr. Vinson. We will get them both the same size." And we did right away, made
them both the same size. He was a great American and so was Richard B. Russell
and this state benefited from the service of both of these great men. I am happy
to say that I am old enough that my uncle went to school with Richard B. Russell
at Gordon Military Institute then. The first inauguration I attended was Richard
B. Russell's inauguration as Governor. Governor Hardman was going out, a doctor
00:29:00from Commerce, Georgia, and Richard B. Russell had been Speaker of the House and
that's the first time I went into the Governor's office and I have tried to
remain close there ever since. One Governor told me that he thought I came over
here with General Oglethorpe and we established the Veteran's department then,
but that wasn't correct, it's been since then. I have enjoyed every minute of it.
COBB: Because of that, your long tenure here, could you give us an idea of how
large this place was when you came, and some sense of the expansion?
WHEELER: Well, this building that you are in now, the twin towers building, was
a railroad station when I came here, and the train ran from here to Augusta once
a day, went down to Augusta and came back here to this spot. The Capitol at
that time was un-air-conditioned, and we worked half a day on Saturday, and we
00:30:00had no merit system, and no retirement system. A lot of things have changed for
the better in the years that I have been here and it has been a great pleasure.
I enjoy being here every day because we are helping somebody when I go home at
night, I think about how many people that we have been able to help today, get
what they are entitled to as a veteran from the federal and state government or
their families. And we are losing about five hundred to six hundred veterans a
month, passing on. That creates work on our field officers. We have field
officers all over the state, they cover every county. A hundred and fifty-nine
counties and we go into every one of them at least once a month, or at least
[we] are available to them. We assist the veteran's widow and we assist with the
00:31:00funeral arrangements. I told you a minute ago about the cemeteries and they have
a beautiful place to have a ceremony and we have grave liners already in the
ground, and put the marker up after they are buried. And those that want to be
burned, I am going to let the Devil do that if it is done at all. I am going to
go out the regular way.
STUECK: Can you talk about the various veterans of various wars that you served
when you first served, when you first came in 1949?
WHEELER: Well, it took a long time for the World War II Memorial to come about.
It was the last memorial of any importance, just about, built for veterans in
Washington. The Vietnam Memorial was built and the Korean Memorial was built
00:32:00there before our World War II Memorial. We just dedicated it last year, which I
was very fortunate to be the chairman of the Advisory Commission for that. And
we were able to bring in Bob Dole as chairman of the Campaign Committee to help
raise money. And I want to tell you a little story about that while I am
thinking about it. The first man Bob Dole called was a former Marine from
Memphis, Tennessee. When he got out of the Marine Corps, he decided he wanted to
get his master's degree in business administration at Harvard. So when he went
to Harvard the professors told him he had to do a thesis on how to start a
business. And he worked on it hard and came up with it and the professors
laughed at him and said, "No. You're going to have to redo this, this is
impossible you're going to have to redo it." He said, "No, I am not going to do
it, I am not going to rewrite. I am going to go back to Memphis and show you."
00:33:00FedEx, Federal Express was the thesis and Fred Smith started the Federal Express
and he wrote us a personal check for two million dollars and says "I will help
you raise the rest of the money." Now Fred didn't tell me this, but I
understand, and being two professors you can understand this too. I understand
slowly every day a double trailer FedEx truck slowly rides around the Harvard
campus. (laughter) So he helped us get started well and he helped us raise 192
million dollars and we have a beautiful monument there and I just learned the
other day, I have a picture of it in there somewhere. [Gestures to conference
room.] Kilroy, somebody discovered, he is there on the backside of the monument,
for World War II veterans. For anybody familiar with World War II, "Kilroy was
00:34:00here." He [Kilroy] is overlooking. It's inside, I will show you it in a minute.
Somebody discovered he is engraved in the Georgia granite that is up there right
behind the Washington Monument facing the Lincoln Memorial. Kilroy is part of
the World War II Memorial. The state of Georgia contributed a dollar for every
veteran that served in World War II toward the purchase of this, establishing
this memorial. World War II was a great victory for America. We wouldn't have a
Washington Monument today or Lincoln Memorial, either one, if we had lost World
War II. We freed a lot of people and the German people are now our allies and
the Japanese are our allies today thanks to people like George Marshall, to me
00:35:00one of the greatest generals in World War II. General Vandiver, Governor
Vandiver now, had the opportunity of spending the afternoon once with General
Marshall. It might interesting to people from Georgia to know that General
Marshall, before World War II, was stationed in Georgia heading our Civilian
Conservation Corps, CCC camps, where young men went to get three meals a day and
they established parks and did a lot of work improving the conditions of our
state. He was in charge of the CC camps in Georgia before he went up as Chief of
Staff. As a sideline I understand, he had a photostatic memory by the way, he
was very proud of the fact that he could remember everything that ever happened
and everything he ever looked at. He could name every county in Georgia and
every precinct and every county just by his photostatic memory. President
00:36:00Roosevelt heard about his photostatic memory. He had met General Marshall. He
had called him--this is George Marshall, later Secretary of State, Secretary of
Defense--he called General Marshall into the Oval Office. And Roosevelt had a
cigarette holder [and said], "Hello, George, old boy. Have a seat over there
George." General Marshall stood at attention in front of the President, at
attention, and looked him in the eye and said, "Mr. President, my name is
General Marshall." He [Roosevelt] said, "You are exactly the man I am looking
for. You are exactly what I want." General Marshall, although he was not given
the credit he should have gotten, he led us to victory in World War II. He was
Eisenhower's boss, MacArthur, all the rest of them and he was a great American
00:37:00and he didn't go to West Point either.
STUECK: VMI?
WHEELER: That's correct. You are correct, he went to VMI.
STUECK: Well, he has gotten plenty of credit from historians.
WHEELER: It is about time. He deserves every bit of it. After the war the
Marshall Plan, which helped bring our enemies--making friends out of them and
they are now our allies, thanks to General Marshall. He was a great American. I
don't think you can give him too much credit. He was great.
STUECK: I take it from your response to the question about the veterans from
various wars that you dealt with, that basically you started with World War II.
WHEELER: Yes, we can go on if you want to.
STUECK: That is, you didn't have much to do with say veterans from the Spanish
American War.
WHEELER: Yes we did, in fact something to do with the War Between the States.
My buddy there from Connecticut, I tell him the War of Northern Aggression, but
it's really the War Between the States. When I came in here we were paying
00:38:00pensions to the widows of the War Between the States, The Civil War. I didn't
believe we had that many and I made sure our people went out and checked to make
sure. We sent the money to the Ordinary of the County, and the Ordinary of the
County delivered the checks to the widows. We had a confederate nursing home
when I came in here, and it was for the widows when I was here, or got here, and
we took care of the widows even if they were not entitled to anything from the
federal at that time. Actually, this department started with the pensions part
long before I got here. When I got here there were a lot of veterans of the
Spanish American War of 1898 in Spain, when we freed Cuba and we got the
00:39:00Philippine Islands straightened out at that time. We had a lot of veterans from
1898 that were living a long time after I got here. In fact, we had one employee
who was a veteran of the Spanish American War. One of our distant relatives, I
am told, was an Army Officer in the U.S. Army before the War Between the States
and then he became a Confederate General. After the war was over, [he] got his
commission back in the U.S. Army and went on to fight in the Spanish American
War, General Joe Wheeler. I understand he got excited once when they were
fighting the Spaniards and he said, "Come on boys, we got the Yankees on the
run." (laughter) But we kind of lost a little interest in him. He was from
00:40:00Georgia, but he moved to Alabama and became a Congressman in Alabama and there
is a little stop over there, Wheeler, Alabama where he lived, beautiful place
still open to the public. But I don't think that I was in the active National
Guard during that time. I was in the Korean War and also the Vietnam War and I
can remember very well, being in uniform and members of my staff being with me
in a Howard Johnson here in Atlanta having lunch one Sunday and we were actually
insulted. If you walked down the street in uniform people would make fun of you.
During that war, they were not treated right when they returned home. Vietnam
veterans were never honored as they should have been, but we made sure they got
00:41:00all the benefits, and [are] still making sure they get all the benefits to which
they may be entitled.
STUECK: Could you compare a little bit your dealings with veterans from the
various wars, say since World War II, in terms of particular needs and services?
WHEELER: Well, we have a lot of lady veterans now and of course the VA
hospitals are now in the process of being remodeled to have more private rooms,
new bathrooms, more female doctors. We have a lot of outstanding women who have
served in the military. In fact, we have a lady who has been chairman of our
board who is in the military and we are very proud of her. She was a sergeant in
the Marine Corps. The service has been the same to all of them. We try to treat
00:42:00everybody equally: veteran and non-veteran, veteran and his family, or her
family. And we try to do all we can for the widows of all wars, and we have been
able to do that.
STUECK: Did you have any responsibilities in relation to women who served in
the WAC [Women's Army Corps] or the WAVES [Women Accepted for Volunteer
Emergency Service] in World War II?
WHEELER: Well, my wife. My wife was an Army Cadet Nurse in World War II, she is
right there. [Gestures] I met her in a hospital and we have been married since
1949. I think we'll be married until one of us pass on. She is a beautiful lady
and we have been in love for many years. We've been married since 1949 and I
00:43:00think it will last forever. I know it will. She was an Army Cadet Nurse in World
War II and her father was active duty military who served the country during
that time.
STUECK: Did veterans benefits apply to her at that time, in 1949?
WHEELER: Yes, but the war was over before she actually got her commission.
World War II was over before she got her commission. She worked temporarily with
the VA after that, and then she went into public health nursing after that and
then our first child was born she has looked after our kids. We have three
children. My son is a graduate of the University of Georgia, and also Mercer,
and also Georgia State. He has three degrees. He is a general counselor for the
00:44:00Gwinnett Hospital system, (unintelligible) Chip Wheeler. He is an attorney and
represents the hospitals in Gwinnett County. There are two large hospitals
there, he is their general counsel. We have a daughter, Francis that graduated
from Georgia State and Oglethorpe University and she attended the University of
Georgia and was a Tri Delt there. She is a teacher in Gwinnett County. She is
married to son of Bishop Bevel Jones of the Methodist Church, and they have
three fine children, all boys, three boys. One of them is in college, and one is
in high school, and one is in grammar school. Then we have another daughter,
Jane, who is a teacher also. She was a Phi Beta Kappa at the University of
Georgia. She was a Pi Mu, and she has passed on. And her son is over there now
00:45:00as a student at the University and he'll get two degrees this fall, all he needs
a PE course. He has an A.B. degree and a B.S. degree, and he plans to go to law
school. He was accepted to Oxford, but he is going to go to law school in
Athens. And we are very proud of our children and our grandchildren. All three
[children], [and our grandchildren] we have five boys and one girl and she is in
charge. She is going to Georgia State this fall, Joanna. Veterans of all wars
are all veterans, and they are all great Americans as far as I am concerned. We
show no partiality to any. You may be interested in this, and I am sure it will
00:46:00be one of your questions perhaps. We are very proud of the fact that the
Department of Veterans Service recognizes African-American soldiers, and we were
the first state agency to equalize and join together the races in our home in
Milledgeville, Georgia. Georgia War Veterans Home in Milledgeville was
desegregated. We ended segregation, and we were the first agency even before the
University of Georgia. We ended segregation in our department, the first one and
I am very proud of that.
STUECK: Do you remember the date of that?
WHEELER: Not exactly right off hand, I can look it up and tell you, but it was
before the school system was desegregated. We desegregated our people first. We
00:47:00are very proud we did. I had four or five members of the NAACP from
Milledgeville, Georgia, nice guys, came up to see me one day in my office. They
said, "We don't want to cause any problems or any trouble. We think that our
veterans ought to be treated the same way in our home in Milledgeville as
others. We would like to do more for them." And I said "I agree with you." I got
the approval of our board to do it, and we were the first ones to do it, and we
are very proud of that fact. And I point that out to a lot of people that we are
so proud of the fact that we took the first step. Now also the man that
introduced the legislation that desegregated Armed Forces was Carl Vinson from
Milledgeville, Georgia. He deserves full credit for desegregating the Armed
00:48:00Forces and I was real proud of him for doing it.
STUECK: I don't quite understand that point.
WHEELER: He was chairman of the Armed Services Committee; he was also, before
they established the Armed Services Committee, chairman [of] the Naval Affairs
Committee. In fact, he was chairman of Naval Affairs during World War II and so
was Roosevelt, at one time, chairman of Naval Affairs. Vinson was able to do
many things that many people don't realize he was able to do. For example, he
went in to see Roosevelt one day, President Roosevelt, who had been Secretary of
the Navy, and he said, "Mr. President, I want to build a Navy Hospital in
Dublin, Georgia." The President, who was Secretary of the Navy said, "Well Carl,
what port is that? I don't recall that being a port." And he [Vinson] said,
00:49:00"'It's not it's in my district." He [Roosevelt] said, "Well, how are we going to
get ships in and out of a place that doesn't have a port?" He [Vinson] said, "We
are going to have an airport there. You are going to build an airport for the
Navy Hospital and we are going to fly them in there. It's in my district." He
was smart enough to include in the legislation--not may but shall--should the
Navy ever give that facility up the Veterans Administration shall establish a VA
hospital there. And we have a VA hospital in Dublin, Georgia because of that. It
was a Navy Hospital first, and they have an airport there in Dublin, GA because
of Carl Vinson. I could tell you many more things about him, he was a great
American, so was Senator Russell.
STUECK: Could you tell us, in dealing with the segregation issue in terms of
00:50:00benefits to African-American veterans in Georgia coming out of World War II,
were they administrated--?
WHEELER: The same way. Everybody is treated equal on the benefits.
STUECK: But is that administrated through the federal system of government completely?
WHEELER: Federal and state. Maybe I ought to make myself clear. The state has
certain benefits, but our main job as far as benefits are concerned--no veteran
is benefited automatic. You got to know about it first and then you got to have
some assistance in applying for them. And that is our job; we have a claims
staff that represents veterans before VA rating boards, they have boards. We
actually act as their attorney, or representative, before these boards. And we
try to convince the board that they meet all the requirements of a certain law,
00:51:00that they are seeking compensation for service connected disabilities or
anything else related to federal benefits. We also assist on state benefits,
getting all the benefits that they may be entitled under federal and state. But
the VA doesn't go out looking for people to give them money; we do. It is not a
gift, they earned it. We want to make sure that the people who earned the
benefit that they receive it. We have offices scattered out all over Georgia
that actually assist veterans first hand to make sure veterans get all the
benefits to which they may be entitled by the federal and state government. And,
by the way, we [are] just getting back quite a few new veterans who went
overseas last May and they came back this May. We got several thousand new
veterans in Georgia. We are meeting with them to see [that] they receive all the
00:52:00benefits to which they may be entitled, in about twenty seven locations over the
state. After they have had the opportunity to come home and relax and spend time
with their family, we'll attend the first drill and be available to assist them
in getting all the benefits to which they may be entitled. The Georgia National
Guardsmen who have been in Iraq, and a lot of them have been under a lot of
pressure over there, it is very hot over there and twenty-six did not make it
back. Of course, we try to assist their families in any way we can for the fact
they didn't come back.
STUECK: Before the veterans' hospital in Milledgeville was desegregated was
there a veterans' hospital for African-American veterans?
WHEELER: Yes.
STUECK: There was? Where was that?
WHEELER: In Milledgeville. Well, there wasn't one for any veteran when I came
00:53:00in here, as I told you earlier in our conversation. When I came in, there were
ten thousand patients in Milledgeville and the veterans were scattered out among
the patients. I sent in team of about four people there and spent months there
trying to find out who was a veteran, and who wasn't a veteran, and where we
could help them. We went in to all veterans regardless of race, class, or
anything else and made sure they got all the benefits to which they may have
been entitled. We got them separated from the other ten thousand patients where
we could see that they got all the benefits they were entitled to. Then a short
time afterwards we asked for and received permission from our board to integrate
the two together, which has worked out wonderful in Milledgeville [and] of
course our other facilities also.
STUECK: Can you tell us about the size of your office in 1949 compared to the
00:54:00size of it today?
WHEELER: Well, it was probably bigger then than it is now.
STUECK: Well, I would be very surprised if it wasn't, but how many people were
there? Well, where was your office in 1949?
WHEELER: It was in the Capitol, the State Capitol on the ground floor. I had
offices around the Capitol here and an office across the street over on seven
hundred street. At one time, we had offices in what is now the Georgia State
University. In fact, the State Retirement System was started in the lobby of my office.
STUECK: How big was your staff in 1949?
WHEELER: Larger than now. We had a lot larger staff. I don't recall. I can look
it up. We operate with fewer people now than we had in 1949.
STUECK: Why? I mean--why has there been a reduction?
WHEELER: Because we are getting more service out of the people that are
00:55:00working. We are training them better, and they know what they are doing, and we
demand more from them then when I got here.
STUECK: Are they, in terms of people--?
WHEELER: They have to pass a certain test and all merit system tests--not merit
system tests but--before we can represent a veteran before a VA rating board,
you have to be certified to do that so we have to train our people to make sure
they understand the law and the regulations.
STUECK: When did your employees come under Civil Service Regulations? When was
that change made?
WHEELER: I don't recall the exact date, but I am glad we are under it. We were
not under it when I came here--there was no merit system when I came in. I think
that the first department of the state government to have any merit system was
maybe the Department of Labor at that time, that's mostly federal funded. We get
00:56:00federal funds for our education division. They pay a hundred percent for that.
The state approves and we check the schools and on the job training sites. We
get federal funds for our cemetery and we also receive federal funds for our
hospital, our nursing home and domiciliary operation and Alzheimer's unit. So we
have a very close working relationship with the Veterans Administration in
Washington. I have had the honor of knowing every head of the VA, meeting them
one time or another. We have had many good people heading the Veterans
Administration, and it has been an honor to work with them, as well as the
Presidents we've had, and the Governors we've had. Beginning--you can see over
00:57:00there on the wall the various governors I have been with, all of them great
Americans and interested in veterans. Most of them are veterans themselves.
COBB: Commissioner, historians are just now starting to realize how important
World War II veterans coming back were in terms--they seemed to get much more
involved with politics after the war, and I know Herman Talmadge was a veteran..
WHEELER: He was in the Navy. He was in the Navy.
COBB: And so was Marvin Griffin and Earnest Vandiver too, for sure.
WHEELER: Carl Sanders, Jimmy Carter
COBB: So that hopefully translated into a lot of sympathy for what you were
doing and your capacity.
WHEELER: They are all very cooperative. I have--we have never had a Governor
that I didn't work closely with. We got much done for veterans through the years
00:58:00and I am in my fourteenth term now. I expect, good Lord willing, to serve it out.
STUECK: Could you talk a little bit about--
WHEELER: I will have sixty years state service at that time and before that, I
told you, I was in the federal government.
STUECK: Could you talk a little about your relationship with voluntary
association such as the American Legion, the VFW?
WHEELER: I don't like to refer to them as voluntary. They are a hard working
group; a lot of them are voluntary of course. They devote their time free of
charge to hospitals and all.
STUECK: How about NGO's?
WHEELER: We represent the American Legion in Georgia before the VA rating
boards that decide on claims. The State Services Officer for the VFW is a member
of our staff and the American Legion also. And we represent other veterans'
00:59:00organizations and work with all them. All of them are great organizations. I
don't think we would have any benefits today if it wasn't for the veterans'
organizations all over the country working to see that we maintain them, and
lobbying for veterans. All of them are doing great jobs: the American Legion;
the VFW; the Am Vets; the DAV: Disabled American Veterans; Paralyzed Veterans
Association; all of them are doing great jobs for the veterans. And then the Old
Reserve Officers Association is called now the Military Officers Association
Enlightenment. I'm a member of that. I have been a member of the American Legion
for sixty years. That is my sixty year plaque over there. While I am looking
over there, [gestures] you might see that is Winston Churchill III along the
01:00:00wall with General Myers. Churchill [III] was there for the World War II Memorial
dedication when we dedicated it. He was there and he said it was the first time
he had been back to America since his mother--her funeral. She was married to
Averell Harriman, of course, and her funeral was there in the National Cathedral
in Washington.
COBB: Commissioner, you were talking about Carl Vinson and of course Richard
Russell, just two great advocates for the state and for their constituents, but
how has the fact that Georgia does have, let's say, a pretty good share of
military installation, used to have more, how does that--has that affected the
work your office has done? Does that mean that we actually have more veterans
who live in Georgia because we have more military installations than some
places? Does that make for a more supportive environment for the military?
01:01:00
WHEELER: Well, we rank number nine or ten in the nation in the number of
veterans. You mentioned the name of two great Americans when you mentioned the
names of Russell and Vinson. I have told you a little earlier I attended
Russell's Inauguration when he was Governor. Through Russell I met Lyndon
Johnson who was later President of the United States. He established the first
steady commission that went in-depth studying the Veterans Administration and
the needs of veterans. And we held--he appointed me to that position when he was
President--and we held hearings all over the United States trying to find out in
what direction we needed to head in the future for the VA. I gave you a copy of
the annual report that we presented to the President at the conclusion of that
01:02:00study. I can remember meeting Carl Albert, who was Speaker of the House then,
from Oklahoma and others. We held hearings in Oklahoma City and all over the
country, New York and other places, Philadelphia. It's been used as a guide
since then for veterans' affairs. Senator Russell really had a lot to do with
making Lyndon Johnson majority leader and later President--a close relationship
there. Carl Vinson was one of the greatest men I think that we've ever had from
Georgia. They were responsible for having many military bases in Georgia; Warner
Robins for example wouldn't be there if it hadn't been for Vinson and others all
over the state. So, it has been a great trip and I have enjoyed every minute of
01:03:00it, knowing these great people. I told you a minute ago about President Johnson
driving a limousine once from Austin down to Johnson City. He decided to tell
the Secret Service he was going to drive. So he was driving this limousine fast
and State Trooper pulled up next to him, didn't know who it was and came up.
Johnson let window down, he said, "Oh my, God." And he [Johnson] said, "Well at
least you know who I am." (laughter)
STUECK: You mention that Georgia is ninth or tenth in total number of veterans.
WHEELER: Yes, that is right.
STUECK: What number would Georgia be in terms of population, in other words, do
we have a disproportionate number of veterans?
WHEELER: No, we do not.
STUECK: So, it is about average?
WHEELER: That's right. Keep in mind we got the largest state east of the
01:04:00Mississippi River, the state of Georgia. We used to go all the way to
Louisiana--had Alabama and Mississippi. And if they don't start acting better we
gonna take them over again. (laughter)
COBB: People have discovered that Georgia is such a great place to live. We get
a lot of retirees who come in as veterans.
WHEELER: A lot of them are moving in and we are happy to have them. They are
good people. It is an honor to work with them. And some of them are now reaching
the age where they need the disabilities increase as they get older. And that is
what our officers are out in the field are for, to assist them in getting the
benefits to which they may be entitled from the federal and state government.
And then once the office fills out the application, we have trained people at
the VA Regional Office that represent the veteran before the rating board and
make a decision on what the disability should be. We have offices located in
01:05:00each of the VA hospitals in Georgia, and there are three of them: one in
Augusta, one in Dublin and one large hospital here in Atlanta. And since you
mentioned hospitals--we are talking about hospitals. We have the first hospital
in America, VA hospital in America, only one up until now where we are taking
active duty people who have been wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan. We are taking
care, I say we, but the Veterans Administration Hospital in Augusta, Georgia is
taking care of wounded active duty people who haven't been discharged from the
services, all branches, Army, Marines, Navy, and the Air Corps., and the Coast
Guard, the rest of them all of them are there. The way that came about, about
01:06:00two years ago Secretary Principi was Secretary of Veterans Affairs at that time.
It came to our attention that at Fort Stewart there were soldiers there waiting
as long as six months to see a doctor, who were in un-air-conditioned barracks
without running water. When we heard that we called Secretary Principi and he
immediately got with the Secretary of Defense and his people and made available
a beautiful place in Augusta, Georgia. Beautiful grounds, beautiful hospital,
available only to active duty people of the Armed Services. First it was Army
and now it's the others. I had an opportunity to call Secretary Principi and
tell him the situation and he immediately acted on this. We helped cut the
ribbon for that facility in Augusta and I highly commend the VA of the great job
01:07:00they are doing for these wounded troops down in Augusta. I saw a Lieutenant who
was totally blind--had been blinded without legs, without arms, and with other
disabilities. I am so proud of the fact that the VA has been able to take active
duty people and give them the care and treatment that they certainly deserve.
And they are getting good care and treatment there down there at Augusta,
Georgia now, and that is a great facility. Once they are discharged, they go
back to other parts of the country probably. Some of them are Georgians, but not
all of them. [They are] from every part of America because they are all branches
of the Armed Forces. That is the first hospital in America, first VA hospital,
and the only one now that takes care of active duty people that need hospital
01:08:00care, and they are doing a great job. It is pitiful to see some of these young
men that they are having to take care of. But they are getting good care I am
glad to say at last.
STUECK: We've talked about a number of personalities in the interview; Russell,
LBJ, could you talk a little bit about your relationship with Jimmy Carter?
WHEELER: Jimmy Carter is a good man. I liked him very much. We disagreed on
some things. We didn't agree on everything, but I think he probably thought I
needed it. We always had a lot of meetings and he was always calling me to pray,
and I appreciate that. He wanted to--he did reorganize the state government and
the original plan was to take the welfare department, which was a separate
01:09:00department, the public health department which was a separate department and the
veterans department which was a separate department and join them all together.
And in a very friendly way I told the Governor that we would have to oppose that
because we didn't feel that a veteran should be in the lobby with a welfare
person. The veteran earned his benefit and he was entitled a special service and
special department. I am happy to say that Governor Carter, after giving it much
thought and after many people talked to him about it, agreed with us and we
maintained the Department of Veteran Services which is a constitutional
department same as the Board of Regents--constitutional board rather. The
Governor gets one appointment each year and they serve for seven year terms,
01:10:00[they] have to be a veteran of course, and a legal resident of Georgia. We have
had very excellent boards, constitutional boards, that govern the Department of
Veteran Services and they in turn elect the commissioner to a four year term,
which I am in my fourteenth now. I have enjoyed every minute of it and looking
forward to--now--we have always had one project underway at all times. We are
now working on a cemetery in Glenville where we will open it and have a
dedication ceremony approximately next September of next year, '07. We have new
projects going on all the time improving the care and treatment of our veterans
and our facilities.
STUECK: Would you talk a little about your relationship with Joe Frank Harris?
WHEELER: Joe Frank Harris is a great American. I remember when he first came to
the Legislature, as a member of the Legislature. I was a close friend of Sloppy
01:11:00Floyd, James Sloppy Floyd was chairman of the Appropriations Committee and was
also a full time employee of the Veterans of Foreign Wars. He was Quartermaster
(unintelligible). We were very close friends and I used to spend a lot of time
with him, particularly when we had a session legislature. He controlled a lot of
the money really. A young man came in one day that had just been elected to the
Legislature in Cartersville, Georgia. And I never will forget Sloppy Floyd
saying, "This boy is going to amount to something one day" and sure enough he
did. He became Governor and was a great Governor and served two terms. And I
served with him eight years and he was a great Governor. His son and my son went
to law school together and we are good friends, even today we are close friends.
01:12:00All the Governors have been great people and I have enjoyed my work with all of
them. Zell Miller and I are close friends and have been since he was in the
Senate. He got elected to the State Senate and I knew him at that time. He was
of course Lieutenant Governor, and then Governor, and then Senator, a great
American. All of them have been great.
STUECK: Could you talk a little bit, in being in the job of Commissioner for so
many years, decades, there obviously are peaks and troughs in terms of funding.
Could you talk a little about some of --?
WHEELER: We have always managed to get along. You have to know the people that
make the decisions, and I made it a point to know the people that made the
decisions. Most of them very fortunately have been close friends of mine that
01:13:00make the decisions. Even today we are happy to know that the people over there
are our friends and most are very sympathetic, all of them are sympathetic with
veterans. And we are very proud that we get what we need to operate efficiently
and operate the department as it should be operated. We are not extravagant. I
am extremely conservative, very conservative on money and other things that are
unnecessary to protect the tax payers' money. We get full value of the dollar.
Our people are well trained out in the field. We have field officers, 41 field
officers, over the state and each one receives the training where we can make
sure that the veterans in their community get all they are entitled to. We
01:14:00report that to the House Members of that area that he can--that we have
isolated--to say--there is an area with a man in Athens for example, at the
University of Georgia. He would send letters out to the Senators in that area
that he covers, and representatives, telling them how much we were able to do
for the veterans of that area during the past year. And tells them also how we
compare with states that have more veterans than we do and are getting less than
our veterans. Showing him [the Senator or Representative] that the money the
state spends for our department is money well spent. We brought in
altogether--helped bring into Georgia last year over two billion dollars in
federal benefits. That includes hospitalization and education and everything,
but over two billion dollars last year. Two billion as compared to about thirty
01:15:00two million in state funds spent. That is spent mostly for nursing home care for
our sick and disabled veterans. We never ask for a bonus in Georgia. We've
always thought the money should go to the sick and the disabled, not the well.
We have never paid a bonus, and probably won't pay one because we think the
money should go to people who need nursing care, who are Alzheimer patients and
people like that deserve it, and then a beautiful place to rest when they pass
on which would be beautiful cemeteries. We are working on that now.
STUECK: During the 1970s there was a transition from essentially a conscript
army to a volunteer army. Could you talk a little bit about the significance of
that from your perspective in terms of the people that you serve?
WHEELER: Veteran is a veteran as far as we are concerned. I can't see any
01:16:00difference really other than one is a volunteer and one is--a lot of volunteers
in World War II, not all were drafted. In other wars, they were not all drafted.
We had a lot of volunteers in all the wars that we participated in and I commend
these young men and women that are volunteering to go into the service. And we
are happy to serve them as we were their fathers before them and their
grandfathers before them and make sure that they get all the benefits they are
entitled to. We don't show any distinction between one war to another war. A war
is a war whether it is declared or not. The war in Vietnam for example back
in--the first Calvary division was the first large group of soldiers going into
01:17:00Vietnam. They went in from Columbus, Georgia. At one time in the early '60s, in
the early part of the Vietnam War--Vietnam was affected--I mean the Columbus,
Georgia residents were more affected by the Vietnam War than any other city in
America. We got together with the mayor, and the newspaper down there in
Columbus, and the veterans organizations, and the agencies that dealt either
directly or indirectly with veterans' affairs, about thirty agencies federal and
state. We got them all under one roof, not to make speeches, but to bring in--we
had the secretaries and the farms there and we had over five thousand people
show up one day and we started there the first supermarket of veterans benefits
01:18:00which is now spread national. We have had one a year since then. The reason we
had to limit it to one [is because] we have to invite these agencies and we
cannot force them to come. We can get them once a year, all agencies and this
gets the person called a procrastinator. Pronounce it for me professor, procrastinator.
STUECK: Procrastinator.
WHEELER: You are right, and a lot of people are procrastinators. For example
Social Security Administrator has an office in most of these cities where we go.
People put off going there, but if you go just one day between certain hours you
get that procrastinator out of his house and he comes over and the social
security does a lot of business even though they have an office located in that
location. It gets that procrastinator out seeking his benefits. We now give flu
01:19:00shots and blood pressure checks. The VA hospitals have a place for that. We
give--drivers licenses have been issued in the past at our supermarkets. The
Game and Fish Commission issue fishing and hunting permits. For the veterans who
are seeking jobs, we have the U.S. Department of Labor and the Georgia
Department of Labor there who assist in that. We also have what used to be the
Civil Service Commission which is now Personnel Management, and the federal
government has a Navy surveyor assisting veterans in obtaining employment. So
that's the reason it's called a supermarket of Veterans Benefits. It goes from
hospitalization--we have people from the cemeteries there talking about burial
benefits. We have people from the insurance there talking about the veterans'
01:20:00insurance matters. We have people from the schools and universities in the
location where we go talking about education. We have our state approval agency
people there. We have all together about thirty federal and state agencies that
are set up to do business in one day, and we always have at least three to five
thousand people present at these.
STUECK: Who came up with the name Supermarket of Benefits?
WHEELER: I give it credit to a fellow who later became--we discussed it
together since we are bringing in all these different agencies not just in the
field of education, but jobs, hospitalization, burial benefits, insurance,
various licenses and all. Later he was editor, one of the assistant editors, of
01:21:00the paper in Columbus. He later moved over to a little insurance company in
Columbus which is now known nationally: AFLAC, the duck. I give him credit for
helping me get started in the right way with this. And he was with the Columbus
paper and shortly after we held the supermarket, he went over with AFLAC, just a
small company. It was started by a close friend of Senator Talmadge, John Amos
who was from Alabama originally and went to law school. He was a city attorney
for Fort Walton Beach before he moved to Columbus to start that little insurance
company. John Amos and his son are still there and [his son] is President of it
I think now. It is a nationally known company now.
01:22:00
STUECK: You sponsor an annual golf tournament?
WHEELER: Yes, we have a golf tournament every year to raise money for the
homeless veterans. We usually raise forty thousand dollars or more each year. We
have been in several locations, right now we are playing in Fort McPherson and
before that we were at Eagles Landing, beautiful course there. The VA hospital
has a group of people who work with homeless people. They locate them. Some of
them are under bridges and doorways. First of all, you need to give them
hospitalization and get them well. We give them care and treatment and encourage
them to take it. They get them in good shape [and] once they are rehabilitated
enough to have a job, they are assisted in finding one and they use this money
01:23:00to pay for transportation to and from their first job, and to pay for clothes,
clean clothes, and workable clothes to work in and a place to stay and a place
to eat until they are out on their own. About ninety nine percent of them have
jobs, otherwise they would be in doorways. We are very proud of this program,
Homeless Veterans Program, operated by the VA hospital here in Atlanta. We have
another one; we usually have it in October. I usually hit the first ball, if I
don't miss it that's the reason they got the name "play it again"; I missed the
first ball. You have to keep your eye on the ball never look up--you gotta keep
your eye on the ball and then look up and see how far it went, but I make a
mistake and look up to see how far it went before I hit the ball, but I play it again.
STUECK: When did your golf tournament start? How long have they been going on?
01:24:00
WHEELER: About--I'd say about fifteen years something like that, twelve or
fifteen years. I've forgotten. I can look it up.
STUECK: What gave you the idea?
WHEELER: Well, the people at the VA hospital and I were talking about how we
could raise money and help veterans, and I agreed to help them sponsor a golf
tournament. I was interested in golf back then. I don't play golf much anymore;
in fact, I don't play it at all. To do it right it's a full time job, and I
don't have time to do it right. I am able to hit one down the fairway. One a
year, I can still do it. We got a VA hospital, I think as a result of a golf
course in Augusta, Georgia. At the time George Sancken was mayor of Augusta. He
was a member of the Augusta National Golf Club. At that time a Senator from
01:25:00South Carolina, I won't call his name he is gone now, a good man, but he had the
hospital set to go, a new VA hospital for Columbia, South Carolina. We knew that
the people [who] had made the decision in Washington were big golfers and George
Sancken was able to set aside the golf course one day and we brought down the
top people, the decision makers, from Washington. We visited Eisenhower's Cabin,
he was still living then, but he was living in Pennsylvania. He is still there.
They kept full time staff there in his cabin. We went in there and around the
mirror were--he and Maimie every place they had ever lived--around the
mirror--and bridge tables, he played bridge. His room was a little cubbyhole
with one bed in it and a telephone and a mirror overlooking the par three course
01:26:00at the Augusta National. And we went in there and around there was the pictures
made all around the time they were married all the way until the time he was in
the White House. And then the people that were down there, we played the course,
Augusta National. We had lunch and dinner down there. Thanks to George Sancken,
who passed on last year I believe. He was mayor of Augusta who was a member. We
wound up getting the hospital in Augusta rather than Columbia, I don't know
whether that had anything to do with it or not, but we certainly encouraged it
during that golf match. So we'd be talking about golf and we would go into that.
STUECK: Part of business in America just as much as in Japan and Korea, right?
WHEELER: I am not familiar with Japan or Korea, but it certainly helps to know
the people you are dealing with. It doesn't hurt to get acquainted with them on
01:27:00a name basis, if you want to get anything done.
STUECK: I am kind of curious about any thought you have about an incident that
occurred in 1995 around the fiftieth anniversary of the end of World War II; the
controversy over the historical exhibit over the atomic bomb at the end of the
World War II at the Smithsonian. Did that--?
WHEELER: Saved my life. I was ready to go to the South Pacific and I praise the
Lord, I should praise Him every night for dropping it. Harry Truman did the
right thing and he saved a lot of American lives and a lot of Japanese lives by
dropping that bomb or we would still be over there fighting today. It saved my
life and I wouldn't be here today if he hadn't dropped it. In my office I have a
picture of the man that dropped it, Paul Tibbets. He was a great American. And
01:28:00he visited here not too long ago--and Paul dropped it and I am proud to say he
is a great American in my book and he ought to be honored in every way possible.
He is an unusual fellow; he's a great fellow, a great American. But I'm glad he
dropped the bomb. Thank God we had Harry Truman there that dropped it. One thing
that tickled me about Truman was it took Mrs. Truman ten years to teach him, to
teach Harry, to use the word manure rather than the other way.
STUECK: There are some other words too; she had to work with him.
WHEELER: He was a great American, Harry Truman was. Thank God he was the
President of the United States. Alvin Barkley was a great man from Kentucky.
01:29:00Very few people know that Alvin Barkley, who was Vice President during that some
of that time, graduated from school here in Georgia. Did you know that? He went
to Emory at Oxford before it became Emory Atlanta. His wife passed away and he
remarried. I can remember when five dollars was just a tremendous amount of
money. On his honeymoon he spent the first night at the Ansley Hotel in Atlanta
and then went down to Sea Island. He tipped the bell boy five dollars and it
made the front page tipping so much money.
STUECK: Wish we could get away with that today.
WHEELER: He graduated from Emory when it was at Oxford, Georgia, well it still
is Emory at Oxford Junior College now, but he was a graduate of Emory
University. A lot of people don't know that. That is where he got his training,
in Georgia. He is a great American, Vice President.
01:30:00
COBB: I am curious about the War in Iraq and the obviously the much increased
reliance on National Guard Troops. Do you foresee--I mean--back when I was in
the National Guard unless you served I think it was six months on active duty
for purposes other than training, you weren't really eligible for veterans
benefits. Obviously a lot of National Guardsmen are now eligible for benefits
they [otherwise] wouldn't have. Would you foresee that because we are clearly
going to be relying on these people more, that there is a likelihood that all
National Guardsmen will be eligible for more benefits?
WHEELER: I would hope so. We would be in bad shape if we didn't have a National
Guard and I am very proud of the fact that they are now going down to the border
to stop illegal's from coming into this country, some of which could be
terrorists. For all we know they all could be, I don't know. I think everybody
01:31:00coming into this country ought to be checked as they are in other countries, as
they are checked in Mexico when you're going there. They check you out pretty
well. People from South America are checked out pretty well. I know they check
them out in Australia. They want to know where you are every night that you are
there, and what you are doing there, and what you are going to do there, and how
long you are going to be there, and whether or not you are going to work there
or not when you go into Australia. I have been there several times. They check
you very closely in New Zealand and other countries, China. And China is coming
to be a great competitor of ours. I spent some time there, over in China. I am
happy [about] the fact they recognize a Georgia product in China, and I have got
to show you this. On all the airlines in China, if you fly from Hong Kong to
01:32:00Beijing, that's across the backseat of every airline, that's Coca-Cola, holy
water. It's in Chinese and I took one off the back of my seat when I was flying
from Beijing from Hong Kong. Coca-Cola is doing well in China. A lot of Georgia
products are going into China and we are getting a lot of Chinese products into
Georgia, probably too many. But it's a growing country and they check people
going in and out of there too you know, and other countries too.
COBB: They check you after you are there as well.
WHEELER: You are right about that. It is a big country too and a fellow from
Atlanta, John Portland, has built a hotel over there in Sang How I believe. We
01:33:00have a lot of interest over there. I never will forget, I visited the American
Embassy one time over in Beijing. President Bush Senior was one of the first
Ambassadors to China. He goes back quite often I understand.
COBB: We haven't talked about Richard Nixon since that was one of his great
initiatives in terms of opening up--
WHEELER: Henry Kissinger did a great job as Secretary of Defense and Nixon went
to school at Duke as you know, up in North Carolina, a little school up in North
Carolina called Duke, which has been in the news lately, they have a soccer team
up there. While we are talking about Duke did you realize that the Rose Bowl in
1943 was played at Duke in Durham, North Carolina? Did you know that?
01:34:00
COBB: No, I didn't.
WHEELER: You know why it was played in Durham?
COBB: Probably because they were afraid of--
WHEELER: They attacked at Pearl Harbor December 7, 1941 and they were very
worried that the attack was going to extend to our west coast including
Pasadena. Duke was in the Rose Bowl as I remember, and so they played the Rose
Bowl in 1942 in Durham. I have got to say this, in 1943 the University of
Georgia from Athens town, played UCLA in the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, and I was
there, and we won. I was still at the University of Georgia and I saw President
Caldwell there and told him, "I may be a little late. Can you help me get back
01:35:00in school when I get back?" And he said "Yes, I'll help you." I knew the
Registrar very well at the University, Uncle Tom Reed. Uncle Tom Reed was a
Registrar and he lived on the campus there at the University and he taught
Sunday school at the First Methodist Church. I was smart enough to go to his
Sunday school class and walk with him over to the First Methodist church on
Sunday morning. I lived in Old College which was one of the oldest dormitories
on campus at the University. Several of us were the last students to live there
then move out of Old College and then the Navy took it over and I don't know
what you have over there now.
COBB: It is about the home of the Franklin College and Sciences.
WHEELER: Well, that is good. It is a great place and I lived in a room that
01:36:00Robert Toombs lived in and Alexander Stevens. Show you how long their room was
still there and we moved out of it. Robert Toombs you know had an Oak tree named
for him over there. He was an unusual man, number one in his class, but he made
the graduation speech under an oak tree. He indulged a little bit too much
probably (laughter), but everyone came out of the chapel to hear him speak. Is
that correct?
COBB: That is correct.
WHEELER: You are the professor.
COBB: Of course, it was an awfully hot day that may have had a little to do
with it.
WHEELER: I don't think they had any air-conditioning then. Toombs was a great
speaker and there are many a great stories about Robert Toombs as you know.
Little Alexander Stevens and I know they had a debate one night and Alexander
Stevens said, I mean Robert Toombs, "You little drawled up shrimp I could eat
01:37:00you up." And he said, "If you did you would have more brains in your stomach
than you head." (laughter) You remember that?
COBB: I remember reading about that.
WHEELER: They were great Americans. The University is a great place and I would
like to go back.
STUECK: Commissioner, that is about all the questions we have for you. Jim
would you like to make any further comments?
WHEELER: Well, let me say this I am happy that I was fortunate enough to live
near the University of Georgia at the city of Crawford. And I am glad to see
that Crawford has a stop light and the city in Texas Crawford has a blinking
light, and we have twelve more people than they have. I am glad I lived there
because I got to see the first game played at the stadium, Sanford Stadium. I am
proud that I knew Sanford, Chancellor Sanford and lived in Athens while he was
Chancellor. He tipped his hat to every lady he saw in the street. Great
01:38:00American, Chancellor Sanford. Harmon Caldwell was the President of the
University and Uncle Tom Reed worked on the Banner Herald in Athens when Henry
Grady, who the school of Journalism is named after, was editor. He later came to
Atlanta after Uncle Tom Reed worked with him on the Banner Herald in Athens
before he moved to Atlanta to become editor, I think of the Atlanta Journal
Constitution. Henry Grady, you have the Henry Grady school of Journalism. First
game we beat Yale and I met Catfish Smith that day and he was All-American from
the University of Georgia. And of course Frank Sinkwich and I were good friends
and there is a picture on my desk of Wally Butts, Frank Sinkwich and I. Sinkwich
was the best man at my wedding and we were dear friends. He won the Heisman
trophy that year and was athlete of the year from Youngstown, Ohio. I am glad I
01:39:00was there in school when Carl Sanders was a freshman and Ernest Vandiver who was
later Governor was a senior. So Athens means a great deal to me and the
University does. I am very proud I have a grandson there now who is going to get
two degrees in the fall. An AB degree and a BS degree at the same time and I
know he will be Phi Beta Kappa, his mother was. And God bless you. It is such an
honor to live here in Georgia and be a citizen of the greatest country in the
World, the United States of America and I am very proud of our flag and all it
stands for and all it represents. It represents the blood of so many of our
veterans, and when I pass on and I hope, I'm not getting up a crowd to go today,
01:40:00but when I do hope to have the American flag on top of it. And I will be
saluting it, laying there saluting it. It is great to be an American, and be
proud of it, and stand up for America whenever you get an opportunity, and stand
up for our veterans who made it possible for all of us to enjoy the freedom that
we enjoy and many of us take for granted as Americans. Thank you.
STUECK: Thank You.
COBB: Thank You.
[End of Interview]