Interview with Thai Le, January 30, 2020

00:00:00Thomas McShea: Alright, today is Thursday, January 30th. And the time is 11:08 A.M. If you could start by giving your name, where you're from, your branch of service, and the rank you attained.

00:00:14Thai Le: My name is Tai Le. I'm from Lawrenceville, Georgia-- about an hour away from Athens. I was in the Marines, four years active duty. And I ended a corporal. E4.

00:00:25McShea: Nice. Okay, so let's start with the basics. So what what led you into the Marine Corps? What what made you join the military?

00:00:36Le: When job interviewers ask me that question, I always say stuff like, "Oh, you know-- I'm gonna be part of like something bigger than myself." But in reality-- like just after high school-- I just didn't know what I wanted to do. I was just like that typical slacker who-- just like-- I was like book smart, but I never actually applied myself and didn't really do much work. And so I just up and joined the military. I'm like, it sounds fun. It wasn't very fun. But benefits are good.

00:00:58McShea: So how was that? How was that transition from being a kid in high school to the Marine Corps? Like what-- Your parents have anything to say about it? Or your friends? What was that like?

00:01:14Le: My parents hated it.

00:01:14McShea: Oh, yeah?

00:01:15Le: They didn't support it at all. They wanted me to, you know, go to school, become a doctor, all that usual stuff. But then, down the line-- As especially my mom like found out what it mentally takes from us or whatever and stuff like that-- She started to like really support it.

00:01:32Le: My dad didn't really care and like just doesn't really care much at all because like-- I'm inside a family were mostly military are involuntarily-- because we're from Vietnam. So, most of them were forced to be in the military But so he didn't even have an opinion on it. But that's just how my dad is.

00:01:46Le: But my mom was really against it. But now-- like as time progressed and she does her research at home, you know-- She's like worried about her son, whatever. She like-- likes more-- some more-- She was definitely supportive now. And she's happy that I'm out and going to school and for free. So, you know-- Why not?

00:02:03McShea: Cool. So you joined up-- And I assume you went to Paris Island, right?

00:02:08Le: Yes.

00:02:09McShea: So tell us about Paris Island.

00:02:11Le: Paris Island--

00:02:12McShea: Very fun place, right?

00:02:14Le: I always tell my friends that it's one of those things-- when you go to college, you have that time to transition or whatever. You can go home every weekend-- or however you want to do it. But then, you slowly transition over the months into college life. But then in boot camp, it's like one day and everything is completely flip-flopped, turned upside down. I used to have really long hair, down to my eyes. And so I had that for five years. And that was a huge change for me-- cutting it all off.

00:02:46McShea: Mm-hm.

00:02:47Le: It was very hot. It was-- I was definitely physically prepared, but I didn't realize how mentally strenuous it would actually be. And so, it was definitely harder-- more difficult mentally than it was physically. The physical part wasn't terrible cause I've always been an active gym goer slash long distance runner. So stuff like that didn't bother me.

00:02:51Le: But it was just like, living at home for 18 years, having every meal fed to you, pretty much-- You didn't have to worry about stuff like that. And it was just like a complete 180 turn into people yelling at you for no reason. And these older people with these funny hats just telling you what to do. And you just have to accept it and just do it.

00:03:33McShea: Do you have any highlight moments or any stories that particularly stand out during your time there? Or no?

00:03:42Le: Not any specific instances, but I do remember-- I like to tell this one story because my friends find it really funny. They all think like I'm just like really tough-skinned guy or whatever. But then, like I remember-- I think it was like sometime-- like it's only three four weeks in maybe. I was like broke down like cried like-- And it was like, "What? You?"

00:04:05Le: And I'm like, "Yeah, man. This stuff's hard dude." Like, it was so much different-- you know-- Cause it's no break. You have no cell phones. You know-- All you can communicate is with like letters and stuff. Yeah-- We would-- Like I would write my mom letters every week and tell her like exactly what we did that week. But like that was-- You know, it's only letters-- just words on a paper. And it's not like actual physical interaction. You can't hear their voice. You know-- can't see their face.

00:04:27Le: It's different. You know-- So that's just something I wasn't used to-- you know-- Again, 18 years living at home. Having to see family and friends every day. Or if I like-- If I want to get away, I could easily just get away-- you know-- But then you come into this like big room with like 70 other guys that you don't even know. And you gotta live with them for three months, you know. So it just adds up over time

00:04:47McShea: Was it-- Overall, did you did you enjoy it? Did you hate it? Did you-- Did you like your time there or what?

00:04:56Le: I'd say up into that point, that was like probably like the worst three months of my life. Yeah, I didn't enjoy it at all. I had some-- So usually, what I say is, "Like, do I regret going in? No. But if I had a chance to go in and do it all over again, would I do it? No." You know. So, that's the answer I give most people.

00:05:12McShea: So what was your-- What job did you get--? Your occupational specialty-- assignment?

00:05:25Le: I went in as infantry. So, I was a rifleman-- just basic rifleman-- And that-- I went into my recruiter's office because he found me at a high school football game. And we were doing like a pull-up competition. He was "Oh, you'd be good for infantry." I'm like, "I don't know what that--"

00:05:38Le: Like, at the time, I had no idea what that was. Yeah, no idea. I'm like, "Oh, that sounds cool man." But you know, brush it off and back my of mind. But I still thought about it. But then, like when I graduate high school, like I said-- Didn't know what I doing. I'm like, "Oh, this guy before-- He told me like I'd be suited for the job." I'm like, "Give it a shot."

00:05:56Le: And so I went to the recruiter's office. I talked to him. I went to like one of those like-- I don't know what you call it-- like the practice things-- like they do like every week. But I only went to one for-- I don't know why I just never went to them. And then, like six weeks after I graduated high school, I shipped to boot camp. And I'm like, "Oh, this actually like really sucks."

00:06:15McShea: So-- And that's-- So you were an infantry when you signed up?

00:06:19Le: Yes.

00:06:19McShea: And that's what-- So you went to-- Did you go to AIT?

00:06:23Le: That's what army calls it-- I think they call it-- We call it SOI-- School of Infantry .

00:06:26McShea: Okay. Yeah, where's that?

00:06:29Le: Like 30 minutes away from camp-- or not 30 minutes away sorry-- um -- in South Carolina. It was in North Carolina, in Camp Geiger-- About 30 minutes from Camp Lejeune.

00:06:38McShea: Okay, so what was that like? Was it different?

00:06:41Le: So, it's weird because sometimes I think that that was actually worse than boot camp-- like not any one instance, but because-- The fact that like you had some of the freedom-- you know-- You had your phone. You could go out on weekends or would do whatever you wanted. But then, like they would restrict you if like one guy did something and like it wasn't even your fault.

00:07:08Le: You know-- They take that freedom away from you as opposed to in boot camp-- Like, you knew for a hundred percent that no matter what. You knew you wouldn't have a phone. You wouldn't be able to go out, you know. It's like-- I think giving us that like a little bit of freedom actually made it worse in a way.

00:07:22Le: But like, as far as like the activities that we did, I mean-- It was more beneficial than we did-- Yeah, no. Cause boot camp is for everyone as opposed to like a specific occupation. So it was definitely more beneficial, like, occupation wise than boot camp was. But, yeah. That like-- Just that mental stuff-- It just gets back to-- Especially now that you have the little taste of freedom. But then, like you expect to be able to do something. But then they take it away from you. You know, I suppose like in boot camp, you just don't have at all. And that's not an option. So--

00:07:52McShea: So was it-- Was it tough to transition to becoming an infantryman in the Marine Corps? Like, what did you learn now? So, you said you came into it and you didn't know what that meant.

00:08:03Le: I had no idea what that meant.

00:08:04McShea: So-- So, how did it feel to learn what that meant?

00:08:07Le: We were at a-- What's it called? We were in formation one day. And we were-- It's like a loose formation. It wasn't like actually staying in a rank set. We were just like in the group. And I remember-- I see this picture of this dude-- Like, he was standing in a hole like the size of his height-- like a six foot hole.

00:08:23Le: And then it was like-- It was like a meme. The caption was-- It was, "Everyone wants to be infantry, but no one wants to do what they do." Or something like that. I'm like, "Why is this guy staying in a hole? What is he doing?" I had no idea what that meant. Yeah. Little did I know I dug a lot of those throughout the years.

00:08:48McShea: Was it a box hole or a--

00:08:48Le: Yeah, yeah. Fighting hole. Sleeping there for a couple days. Hope to hell it doesn't rain. It probably will because that's usually how it works.

00:08:57McShea: Yeah. Alright, so where'd you go from--? To the SOI they call it, right?

00:09:02Le: SOI, yeah. School of Infantry. It's just the same thing as Army's AIT. I know a few freinds-- the Army-- the only reason I know the lingo, whatever.

00:09:10McShea: Okay. So where'd you do from there? What was the next step?

00:09:11Le: After SOI, you went to your permanent duty station. So, mine was Camp Lejeune-- which is only a half hour up the street. So, it wasn't really that much of a change, other than the fact that we had our actual own rooms as opposed to bays. Had two roommates. They were pretty cool. Kept to ourselves most of the time. I usually like to keep to myself. And, yeah-- I mean, more freedom on the weekends. Actually being able to do whatever you wanted. Like, even if we were restricted-- We could still at least like go to the gym or like, you know. Just walk to the store and buy something you wanted to buy or something.

00:09:48McShea: So what was the-- What was your unit and-- you know-- What was it like getting adjusted to the-- In the Army, we say line units, right? What was it like being a member of a platoon?

00:10:00Le: Right, I think we call them line platoons.

00:10:02McShea: What did you do?

00:10:03Le: So, I was just a basic rifleman. I was with 1-8, 1st Battalion, 8th Marines. It was definitely weird going in too-- Because I remember I was standing-- We were like signing up for rooms or something. It was like the first day we were there. And we go up to the officer in charge of whatever he was in charge of.

00:10:30Le: And he asked us, "Who are we with?" And I said, "Oh, 1-8," because that's all I knew. He told me I was 1-8. And the guy goes, "Oh, great. Thanks for reminding me where I am." I'm like, "I don't know what I'm supposed to tell you, man. What do you want from me?" You know, because we get very little information going into stuff like that. And we're just expected to know what's going on. I didn't know what 1-8 was. I just knew there was two numbers. Oh, okay. Yeah, so it was kind of weird.

00:10:57McShea: So they just kind of threw you in, figuring it all out as you go?

00:11:01Le: Yeah, there was a list of names and units. And so they just read down. They're like, "Alright. Ty, Lee, 1-8." And then they're like, "Alright, 1-8, guys, stand over here." And they took us on a bus and took us somewhere else. And we got over there, and they're like, "Hey, who are you with?" I'm like, "1-8." They're like, "Oh, great. Thanks for reminding us where you are." I'm like, "I don't even know what 1-8 means."

00:11:20McShea: So did you guys--did you do a lot of training? What did you do as a basic rifleman?

00:11:26Le: Rifleman, yeah. We did a lot--We did the stuff that people expect Marines to do. I was actually surprised that people--how very-- because going into Marines-- once again-- I had no idea what I was getting into. Didn't know what the infantry was. So, I just thought everyone just every day camped in the woods-- like hung their food from trees to get like-- not bears-- so bears wouldn't see it. You know, stuff like you see on TV and stuff like that. You know.

00:11:49Le: I don't know what's going on. And so, when I went in, we actually did--well, we didn't hang our food from trees. Bears wouldn't get it because of that. I don't know-- But we didn't actually do stuff like that. But like, we did the stuff that I expected-- like, you know-- Marines do from like TV or whatever. But then I was actually very surprised like how little people like actually did that-- like meeting guys like cooks or like boat fuelists-- where all they do is like fuel stuff. I'm like-- And then they tell me like the only time they actually touch the rifle-- It's like every like the yearly qualification. I'm like, "I haven't been like two days without touching my rifle." That's so weird because like that was my job, you know. That's all I did. We just like ran around the woods and pretended to shoot each other.

00:12:32McShea: So you're training-- What was-- How long were you there? And did you-- Did you go anywhere with your unit or--?

00:12:41Le: I was at Camp Lejeune from after SOI-- So like, after-- Boot camp was three months and SOI was two. So, that's like five months. So, the rest of my four years I was at Camp Lejeune. I deployed twice, six months each. So other than that, those times, I was at Camp Lejeune.

00:12:59McShea: So where did you deploy to?

00:13:00Le: First deployment we lived in-- We did the Black Sea rotation. I lived in Italy, Sicily to be exact. And we push missions to West Africa. We trained their "special forces", depending on how you use the word special. And it was very odd. We went there. And we were expected to teach them about their weapons, which were AK-47s. And I've never seen an AK-47 in my life. So, we literally just like took one of theirs, figured it out real quick and like showed them. I'm like, "It's odd."

00:13:34Le: Second deployment was just a UDP to Okinawa. And we pushed missions to the DMZ in South Korea. But that was when Trump and Kim Jong-il or whichever one-- They shook hands and you know, stepped over the border. So, it was very peaceful. So we kind of sat there. Went to the gym twice a day, ate MREs all day for about six weeks.

00:13:56McShea: Were you on ships? Were you-- You said you were based in Sicily. What did you think of those deployments?

00:14:04Le: The first one was very-- The change between where I live-- like our fort operating base-- and where we actually push missions to was very different. So, it was very weird. So, in Sicily, the average temperature was like mid-70s, mid-80s. We had a pool. We had a gym. You know, complete freedom because that was just where we were based. We weren't actually doing anything there.

00:14:29Le: And so-- But then when we would go to Africa, it was like a complete shift. It was like 110 during the day and no running water, no bathrooms, no A/C-- third world country. We had trash everywhere, eating like camels and stuff.

00:14:40McShea: What country was it again?

00:14:43Le: Mauritania

00:14:43McShea: Okay.

00:14:45Le: Well, that was the country that I spent the most time in. I think we went to like five or six others. I can't-- It was West Africa. I don't even know. But, we linked up with a couple of guys-- you know-- stayed there for a few days or stuff like that. But, Mauritania was six weeks. Yeah. So, that was by far the longest one. So, that's where we actually spent like the majority of the time training their like soldiers or whatever they called them.

00:15:11Le: It was really weird like that-- Their traditions were a lot different than like America's. Like, if these guys forgot their boots at home, they would just like show up in flip-flops. I'm like, "Dude, what's this dude doing in flip-flops?" Or like, I think the youngest dude it was like 15. And the oldest was like 40 something. But like, they they could potentially be like the same rank just depending on like how they were born. It's just like-- It's not like the Americas. It's very odd.

00:15:41McShea: Oh, was this the first time you had ever left the country? Or had you traveled outside the United States?

00:15:46Le: Oh, yeah. That was the first time. Italy was my first time I've ever left the country. Yeah. Boot camp was the first time I ever shot a gun. Yeah. I didn't know what the infantry was when I got in.

00:15:57McShea: That's awesome. What about Korea? What do you think of of Korea?

00:16:01Le: Korea-- Well, Japan was very hot. And Korea is very cold. So, it was a huge change. But, we took helicopters from Italy to West Africa. So, it wasn't like too long of a flight. But from Japan to Korea, we took boats. So that was like much longer. And so, you had like a chance to get like more acclimated to weather, I guess. So, it wasn't terrible. Unless like you were really prone to seasickness-- in which case like it was a terrible day for you. I wasn't prone to-- Like, I've been on cruises and stuff-- like actual cruises. So like, it wasn't terrible. But some people just get like really bad motion sickness, I guess. So that's when it's really bad time for them.

00:16:43McShea: When you were in Korea, did you-- Did you just-- you know-- What kind of duty was it? Were you training? Were you doing something specific? Or did you just stay there for a while?

00:16:54Le: We were-- There's always a unit like ready to get deployed to the DMZ, just in case. And that was us at the time. And until that happened, we were just on standby. We did some training with some of the ROK Marines-- Republic of Korea Marines-- ROK Marines-- But that was only for like a few days-- like on and off. Basically just like our higher-ups getting together with their higher-ups-- Like, "Hey, you want to do this? Because my guys have nothing to do." But other than that-- Yeah, it's mostly just sitting around, waiting.

00:17:25McShea: Yeah.

00:17:26Le: That's usually how it is.

00:17:28McShea: Hurry up and wait, right.

00:17:30Le: Yeah, pretty much.

00:17:30McShea: Cool. And you said that was at the time that President Trump was-- when he stepped over.

00:17:37Le: Yes, it was a pretty tough time.

00:17:39McShea: Were you in the country when that happened?

00:17:40Le: Yeah. I believe so.

00:17:41McShea: What did you all think about that? You know, the whole--

00:17:44Le: We were all like, "Oh, great. I'm here for no reason. Can I go back to Japan now? Where it's hot and not like freezing every day." It was-- It was so cold. They actually let us wear beanies to formation. And as a Marine you have to get a have to get a haircut like every week. And we wore a beanie for so long I actually got away with not getting a haircut for three weeks. And no one knew-- just because I wore a beanie all the time. It was great because none of my friends could cut hair.

00:18:12McShea: It's funny. Did your high school self-- I wonder if you ever imagined that you'd be so happy to be able to wear a beanie. Right?

00:18:20Le: Right.

00:18:24McShea: So, after the deployments, did you go back to Camp Lejeune?

00:18:28Le: Yes. After the end of each deployment, we would come back--

00:18:31McShea: Or Geiger, you said?

00:18:32Le: No, no. Camp Lejeune. Camp Geiger was SOI. I was only there for six weeks after boot camp. And then, I never went back.

00:18:38McShea: I gotcha.

00:18:39Le: Yeah. That's just where the schooling after boot camp takes place. That's it.

00:18:43McShea: Okay. I had the two confused.

00:18:44Le: Okay, yeah. Camp Lejeune's the big one.

00:18:46McShea: So what'd you do after that? You just go back there and--

00:18:50Le: Well, when I got back from my first deployment, we-- You know, took a little time off logistic wise and everything-- And then started training for the second deployment. Because as infantry, they want you to deploy at least twice during a contract. To make, like, worth of their money, I guess. So, once every two years or so.

00:19:07Le: And after the second deployment, because of how the scheduling worked out-- When I got back, I was--I'm getting out in less than six months-- as in, like, leaving the military. So after the second deployment, I was just doing a lot of transitioning stuff. I'm turning--I'm washing my gear, turning in, stuff like that. You know, making sure everything's ready to be, like, handed back.

00:19:28McShea: So, was that--and when was this? When were you transitioning out?

00:19:34Le: I got out officially--

00:19:36McShea: I guess I should have asked-- What was your--What was the period? When did you sign up? And when did you get out? I should have asked that up front.

00:19:42Le: I graduated high school in--Is it May? May of 2014. And then, I went to boot camp in July of 2014. And I was in for four years and left July of 2018.

00:19:58McShea: Okay. Okay. So fairly recently. So, when you were-- I guess, walk us through-- You said you were six months out from getting out of the Marines. Walk us through what brought you from that point to where you are now at UGA.

00:20:12Le: Okay. I was actually one of the smarter ones in terms of like taking advantage-- not taking advantage of like-- You know, taking the full potential of what like you're given. At my two year-- Because I was always like book smart. And I knew that. I just never applied myself. Growing up, people always-- Like, the number one phrase people would tell me like, "Oh, you have potential."

00:20:32Le: But you know-- I didn't know what that meant. You know-- And then-- So, you know. After like a nice little mental kick in the butt first couple of years, I like got my stuff together. And, at two years, they started giving you TA-- tuition assistance-- and to pay for your school. And so, at the two year mark, I applied for my school. But I didn't realize how long it took. So, it actually took me six months to figure everything out because-- you know-- I was in Camp Lejeune. I wanted to go to school in Georgia-- just so that when I would transition out it'd be much easier for me credits wise.

00:21:07Le: It would be hard for me up front. But you know, better than-- Since I have time in the back end, I might as well do it there as opposed to trying to do it like when I get out. So, it took him six months. And so, my two and a half year mark-- I started college actually near where my mom lives-- where I lived before I left boot camp in Lawrenceville at a small college called Georgia Gwinnett College-- Cheapest four-year college in Georgia. A lot of people go there to like dual enroll, like in high school.

00:21:35Le: And so, I applied there. And getting in was pretty easy. So, I got in. And I started taking classes while I was in the military. They only pay for two classes a semester. So, I was in school for two years and only got like a semester and a half worth of credits. But better than nothing, you know. Because it doesn't-- That doesn't touch my GI Bill. And so, after my second deployment-- Through both deployments and after my second, I continued doing that-- You know, getting as many credits as I could.

00:22:03Le: And it's-- Like I said, I was a slack in high school. So, I didn't get any college credits from high school. So, I got out with a few-- like semester and a half worth of college credit. And then, I had to take one more semester at that school before I could transfer here because it's like a minimum-- You have to have like 30 credits to transfer to a school. I had like 20 something. So I just needed another semester.

00:22:28Le: So I took another semester. Then, it was easy because like instead of applying for a whole new college-- All I did was literally instead of signing up for online class, I just signed for real person classes. So I just continued that and came into school like-- as if I was there the entire time. So I did one semester there. That was right after I got out of the military. And then I applied for UGA-- just because-- like I mean-- I always knew UGA was a good school. I'm-- Pretty much my entire family, except my brother, has been here and graduated from here. And so, like this is always like that one place I want to go. So I applied, got in. And now I am here-- my first semester

00:23:10McShea: I was asked-- Do you-- When you look at your high school self, and then your post Marine Corps self now-- do you think the Marine Corps-- Did it help you out at all? What's it like going from from being surrounded by a bunch of Marines every day to being a civilian student at UGA?

00:23:30Le: So, it definitely helped me out. A lot of my friends still tell me I act the exact same. And I do-- Like, I haven't changed much. But it's just-- I'm more like mature and have my priorities straight now. You know-- I know what the infantry is. I know what potential means. You know, stuff like that. Actually start studying for my stuff. School-wise, definitely doing better.

00:23:55Le: After-- Directly after I got out of the military-- Like, they make you go through like a one week class called TRS, Transition Readiness Seminar. And they-- there's like a few programs that you can sign yourself up for. And me, I looked at it. I had no idea what any of this stuff was. But one of my uncles-- who I look up to a lot-- He used to work for Cisco. At the time, he worked for Cisco. He's there for almost 20 years. It's like a network engineering job. You know, it's like router switches, firewall, stuff like that. He said, "Oh, yeah, you should check him out." I'm like, "Okay. Sure, why not?"

00:24:30Le: So I signed up for it because it was free. You know, why not? And I had to go through an extensive interviewing process. I didn't know how to do that. But then, I got accepted into the program. And it was like a six-month-- Basically, we give you the materials-- You study by yourself-- kind of deal. And so, I bought the book studied for a little bit. You know, use my actual like book smarts like for good for once in my life. You know.

00:24:54Le: And I actually found out that I was good at that kind of stuff. And I actually like enjoyed it. That's how I got into like IT and stuff like that. Over the course of like a couple years, I've gotten seven certifications I think. Something like that-- Three from Cisco. And then just of like a few other companies-- just branching out. You know, just having-- Trying to get my foot in the door. Have these employers like look at me. You know, built my resume. And my goal is an internship every summer because I'm trying to do four years. No summer classes. I'm trying to get an internship every summer. And so far, it's one for one. And career fair was yesterday. And hoping someone will call me back. So, we'll see. Hopefully go two for two.

00:25:40McShea: So that's what you're in-- IT now, here at UGA?

00:25:45Le: Yeah. I mean-- So there's no-- At GDC, my old school, there was an IT major. But at UGA, there's not an IT major. There's stuff similar-- like computer science-- But, that's more like programming stuff. I don't-- I'm not a programmer. I'm a networker, which-- Very little people know what that is because there's not that many people who do it-- I guess-- Like basically routers, switches, firewalls, access points, stuff like that. I work with that kind of stuff and--

00:26:08Le: So I came to UGA. And I figured, you know-- Like, no matter how good you are at your job, eventually they'll put you in like a managerial position. You know, and like-- A lot of my, I guess friends, in the Cisco program-- Like, they couldn't like actively hold a conversation, you know. Like, they can't look me in the eye and have an actual human interaction. You know, I didn't like that at all. And so, I'm trying to incorporate the business world-- like the interpersonal relationships-- with like the IT as well. And not just be like that really awkward dude-- like really good at his job, but all he does is just stare at the computer all day. Yeah. But I also have like the technical side. Because that's like what my background is as well.

00:26:49McShea: Cool. Yeah, what's the-- Do you-- I guess the reason-- I didn't state it clearly, but a lot of veterans will come in here and they'll talk about how different they feel from the other students. They suddenly get dropped at a big university like this. Oh. Is that something you've experienced as well? Or no?

00:27:11Le: I think so. I had-- I think I had a bit of an easier transition out of the military. Because, like-- They always told us, like, the number one thing to, like-- for an easy transition-- It's just keep yourself busy. You know? Because, like, four years ago, you were, you know, actively part of the family, doing whatever. But then you left for four years. So, you know-- They've adapted. And the roles you used to do, someone else has already picked up. You know? And you can't go home expecting to do what you did four years ago.

00:27:41Le: And so I just kept myself busy with the probe-- like the studying and all. But then-- So my transition was a bit easier because I spent a lot of time doing that. And then-- On top of that, going to a smaller school at first-- GGC, before coming here. At GGC, from the furthest point on campus-- the opposite diagonal corner of the furthest part on campus-- that you could walk in, like, a minute and a half. Like, here you can't even-- I can barely even make it to my class in a minute and a half in the building opposite the street. Yeah. And so-- I mean, it is much bigger than my old school.

00:28:16Le: But the transition-- I'd say it's still definitely weird. I feel like I'm kind of awkward sometimes, just because I have an --excuse the language-- like a natural resting bitch face. Just because in the marines, it was all about-- What's that phrase they used to say? If it looks like it is, then that's probably how it is. I forgot how they said it. If it looks like a turtle, it's probably a turtle.

00:28:44McShea: If it looks like a terrier, it probably is a terrier.

00:28:45Le: Yeah, exactly. Something like that. So, you would slowly just learn to like-- Basically walk around looking like confident or like mad or angry all the time-- So like people just wouldn't mess with you, you know. Like, I guess over time it just like stuck. And so-- Like, I'll be walking down the street. And like someone I met the other day would like say hi to me, but I didn't hear him.

00:29:07Le: Maybe I had headphones in or whatever. And like the next day in class like, "Oh, yeah man. Said hi to you but like it looked like you have a really bad day. So I didn't wanna like--" Like "No, it's fine. I just I didn't hear you-- Like I wasn't having a bad day at all." But like, I just have like a natural-- you know-- It's like mad face. I don't know. I'm trying to get that over-- like trying to like undevelop that. But, it's weird.

00:29:26McShea: Yeah. Alright, well, like I told you-- I guess, if there's anything that I didn't ask about that you want to talk about-- Or if you want to just-- you know-- Open mic to the young researcher 150 years from now-- The floor is yours. You can talk about whatever you want. Do you have anything you want to say?

00:29:52Le: I've always wondered this-- This will probably never happened. But I've always wondered if, like, at one point in time, especially in the infantry-- Well, in my job it was all guys. So it's a big like, you know, like who's better at whatever competition. So, my point is, like I wonder if people will ever just like swallow their pride and just like actually communicate.

00:30:18Le: Like, for example, we-- When we were in Korea-- because Trump was there, so we got to go see him like talk-- And we got there at 3 in the morning. He didn't come until 11. And so, the reason why was because-- Like, you know-- Like the highest guy up or whatever would be like, "Alright, he said it's 11. Come at 10." He'll pass it down. He was like, "Oh, it's 10. Come at 9." And it'll just keep coming down. And it somehow made its way to 3 A.M..

00:30:47Le: And as we just sat there doing absolutely nothing. Like eight hours. And by the time he came, we had like a full day of just like doing nothing. And it was only 11 A.M.-- just-- That was just one example. That happens all the time. But I wonder if the highest guy in charge would ever just say like, "Alright, this is the actual time. Have you guys ready at this time." And it-- Just not--- The term we use was gunny time because usually it's coming from like the gunnery sergeant.

00:31:12Le: And so, I wonder if that would ever like stop happening. Because it's really dumb. Like, it's a huge waste of time for everyone and everyone's part. And it's just absolutely unnecessary. And there were a lot of dumb rules too-- like I don't know-- This is one story I would always tell my friends: When we're in Japan, there was a rule. You couldn't walk on the grass. I'm like, "Okay. That makes sense-- You know-- They're trying to preserve the grass." But then, I learned it's not that. You can run on the grass. You can work out in the grass. You can like do stuff like mountain climbers are much worse than walking the grass. You just can't walk in the grass.

00:31:47Le: And so, I'm like, "No. That's stupid. I'm gonna walk on the grass because that makes no sense." It just inconvenienced me to walk around. And so, if I get caught walking the grass and someone like higher up than me sees me, he's like, "No. You-- get back." I'm like, "Wait-- So I just walked in the grass when I wasn't supposed to. So you want me to turn around and walk back on the grass I wasn't supposed to walk on again just to walk around it?"

00:32:10Le: He goes, "Yes!" I'm like, "Okay." So I walk on the grass. And I turn around, walk back across the grass I wasn't supposed to walk on just because of pride or whatever. And then walk around to become in the same position I was like five minutes ago. And just waste everyone's time. It just makes no sense. Why? This is one of those feelings I just never understood-- these dumb rules.

00:32:32McShea: You're articulating a problem that many soldiers in the army very much agree with.

00:32:37Le: Yeah. There's no reason behind it other than the fact that like someone said you can't do it. But then, it would make sense like if they're trying to preserve the grass. You know, but that's not what-- You just can't walk on like-- If I were to jog on the grass it would not be a problem. But if I'm like grocery shopping and I have like a handful of bags and you walk-- I'm not trying to jog across the grass. I'm not trying to walk around the grass either. But you have to for no apparent reason. That's just how it is-- just those dumb rules. You know, I just wonder if like a few years from now-- if like someone like really high up would just figure out like why we're doing this stuff for no reason.

00:33:20McShea: Instead of just holding on to traditions and custom-- that this-- Or perceive traditions and customs that may not make sense, right?

00:33:29Le: Or at least explain to us why-- As opposed to just being like "No, you can't do it because I said so." Like, that doesn't make any sense. That's why we disobey you. If you told us why and we understood-- Then, maybe we would actually attempt to walk your way because we understand where you're coming from. But of course, you can't say that because then we're always being rude And you tell the person in charge of you. And then everyone gets in trouble because of you-- even though I'm being reasonable.

00:34:01McShea: Before we wrap it up-- Do you want to say anything about-- you know-- what's going on in the world today or what you think about it? Again to the-- Talking to the person a century down the road-- Do you have anything else you want to add or no?

00:34:16Le: Not really.

00:34:17McShea: Okay. Awesome. Well, hey-- Thanks-- Thanks for coming by today. And thank you for giving your story.

00:34:22Le: Thank you. I didn't notice at the beginning we didn't say the year though. It's 2020.

00:34:27McShea: Oh, yeah. Thank you.

00:34:31Le: I was holding on that. I just didn't know when to say that-- When a good time to say that was.

00:34:34McShea: So its January 25th, 2020.

00:34:38Le: 29th-- Or no. 30th.

00:34:40McShea: 30th. Yeah, I can't even read. Thank you for that.

00:34:42Le: Sure.

00:34:43McShea: And thanks for giving your story today.

00:34:44Le: Of course. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END