00:00:00TAPE: 5 [5]05:00:37
INTERVIEWER : Tell me about the meeting.
[5]05:01:10
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : All I remember was I was on it and, uh, (STAMMERS) it meant
a great deal to me but for my fellow lawyers to feel that the job we had done
developing legal aid in Georgia so that it was (STAMMERS) fixed and doing a good
job it meant great deal to me.
[5]05:01:28
INTERVIEWER : The state bar originally tabled a motion that you had made because
you weren't there?
[5]05:01:35
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : That was very (UNINTELLIGIBLE) because (STAMMERS) the
reason for postponing it was the fact that the atmosphere of that particular
meeting which I was not present was such that those people who favored legal aid
were afraid that it would be defeated so they used the excuse Sol Clark has to
be present because all of this work has been done by him so let's postpone this
stuff vote on it today since he's not here. And we can vote on it the next year.
I mean, that's what they did.
[5]05:02:12
INTERVIEWER : Do you remember the meeting where they finally voted on it in Athens?
[5]05:02:18
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : I was present when they (STAMMERS) they finally voted on
it, uh, and it was able to get the pass (STAMMERS) without any question, it was
almost unanimous and it was a complete change of mood in the state of Georgia
they recognized that we didn't go the fact is that (UNINTELLIGIBLE) lawyers
should help poor people (STAMMERS) organize legal aid would help them more than
not having it.
[5]05:02:48
INTERVIEWER : What were the arguments do you remember?
[5]05:02:56
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : The fact is that it was in line with the legal lawyers
tradition no service to the public. It was the kind of work that should be
available to the public of lawyers who were perfectly willing to serve the
public but being paid so that they were able to work without any worry as to money.
[5]05:03:22
INTERVIEWER : Who was president of the state bar at that time?
[5]05:03:25
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : Gus Cleveland may have been I don't know but Gus was
everyone of the state bar leaders were for joining the national legal aid
movement. (TECHNICAL)
[5]05:03:57
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : It was almost as if my name was synonymous with legal aid
'cause that's the way they looked at the legal aid movement. (STAMMERS) This is
what Sol Clark has promoted--
[5]05:04:05
INTERVIEWER : (OVERLAPPING) From your perspective is that accurate or not?
[5]05:04:07
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : I think it's accurate.
[5]05:04:09
INTERVIEWER : You think it is accurate?
[5]05:04:10
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : Uh, huh, I'm very proud of it because (STAMMERS) if I had
not been at the meeting that they postponed (STAMMERS) due to my not being
there, they would not have passed it, they would have defeated the motion.
[5]05:04:23
INTERVIEWER : So your absence helped.
[5]05:04:26
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : Definitely.
[5]05:04:29
INTERVIEWER : Describe what Betty Care (SP?) did.
[5]05:04:39
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : She organized it because I was already (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
once they got started I took an active part but I preferred to let other people
have the honors of being officers and so forth. Because that's what was needed
people who were interested in giving them a title, help to (STAMMERS) help to
engender that, engender that interest.
[5]05:05:05
INTERVIEWER : So you had a very good relationship with the younger lawyers?
[5]05:05:10
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : That's correct (UNINTELLIGIBLE) my son who inherited the,
the, the, uh, when he was in law school the desire to have a legal aid
(STAMMERS) movement helped and so he organized first the students as a legal aid
organization then he instigated the foundation of an Athens legal aid
organization and later of course became president of the legal aid, uh, and of
the Georgia bar, uh, Savannah bar association and my partner.
[5]05:05:46
INTERVIEWER : These younger lawyers were peers of your son?
[5]05:05:49
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : Definitely they were (LAUGH) (STAMMERS) his age and generation.
[5]05:05:55
INTERVIEWER : And--
[5]05:05:57
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : Uh, and--
[5]05:06:00
INTERVIEWER : What was your response to these younger lawyers taking the initiative?
[5]05:06:04
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : I was happy to let them have the honors and be recognized
because they were the ones they were doing the labors and it's continued to be
recognized as the H. Sol Clark award, um, and (STAMMERS) I'm very proud that
they continue to and it is sought after and I try to recognizes the winner every
year when, uh, by a way directly.
[5]05:06:32
INTERVIEWER : Any other obstacles to overcome?
[5]05:06:47
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : No it took, uh, some years of course to go through but, uh,
Georgia was really, uh, firm ground for any movement that would help the poor
kept legal services in an organized way.
[5]05:07:04
INTERVIEWER : How so?
[5]05:07:06
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : Because that was the effective way to get it done and they
had lawyers in Georgia, Georgia lawyers are, have always been very helpful in
taking on causes and individuals particularly for people. I belong to a noble profession.
[5]05:07:28
INTERVIEWER : So you've seen a great change since you began?
[5]05:07:37
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : That's correct. And of course nationally legally it is just outstanding.
[5]05:07:46
INTERVIEWER : What was the connection between the state movement and the
national movement?
[5]05:07:55
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : (UNINTELLIGIBLE) That when Snide Cambrell (SP?) became
president of the national, um, legal aid, I mean, national bar, American Bar Association.
[5]05:08:09
INTERVIEWER : Tell me about the gift your wife presented.
[5]05:08:26
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : I was always, um, very interested in W.W. Law because, uh,
I remembered him as a mailman and how everybody in the neighborhood would look
up to him and greet him and he would always be know everybody oh
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) and so, uh, (CLEARS THROAT) I, I when my wife (UNINTELLIGIBLE),
uh, as, as my wife and (STAMMERS) it was then, uh, he had already created the
King Tisdale cottage and she was such a believer in that kind of, of, uh,
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) and neighborhood so, um, (STAMMERS) wanted a fountain so she
got this Atlanta artist who created fountains to create the monument that is
there the forefountain monument and the she, uh, wanted she gave the 10,000
dollars if you don't mind me mentioning the figure to the artist.
[5]05:09:42
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : Providing it was dedicated to Mr. W.W. Law because of the
work he had done for his people in the City of Savannah (CLEARS THROAT) and so,
uh, it was (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of that fact, uh, that it's dedicated to him and of
course it is symbolic of the rise that it, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) people from the
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) up to, um, citizenship.
[5]05:10:17
INTERVIEWER : It must have been a great moment.
[5]05:10:18
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : It definitely and very interesting because (CLEARS THROAT)
it later resulted in the college of arts and (STAMMERS) Savannah (STAMMERS) [5]05:10:30
INTERVIEWER : College of art and design.
[5]05:10:31
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : Uh, thank you, (STAMMERS) college of art and design, the
best organization giving the, um, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) building to this, to the
community of Savannah as a token of the appreciation of Savannah of what W.W.
Law had done for Savannah through the years and he still is an honest man.
[5]05:11:00
INTERVIEWER : What other encounters did you have with him over the years?
[5]05:11:11
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : Whenever there was any situation that a lawyer could be
helpful in advising Mr. Law has not hesitated to come to me and present the
problem and get (UNINTELLIGIBLE) whatever I would advise.
[5]05:11:30
INTERVIEWER : Any examples?
[5]05:11:34
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : I would feel that it's (LAUGH) lawyer client relationship
that should not be dealt with because after all it was his decisions.
[5]05:11:43
INTERVIEWER : So he would come to you?
[5]05:11:45
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : To talk, uh, that's all, uh, on the problem and he, when he
created the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) street place out of the bank, uh, he had me give a,
a talk that's, uh, recorded now on the history of the situation in Savannah.
[5]05:12:04
INTERVIEWER : The situation?
[5]05:12:08
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : Between Whites and Blacks.
[5]05:12:11
INTERVIEWER : What kind of leadership would he show throughout?
[5]05:12:14
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : (OVERLAPPING) Tolerance. Working toward (STAMMERS) unity
and keeping in mind always what was best for Savannah. And recognizing that
historically there had been a, um, break, I have to put it that way, uh, and it
was not (STAMMERS) the kind of understanding and feeling towards the, uh,
between the races that Savannah needed and now has.
[5]05:12:46
INTERVIEWER : How would you assess his legacy?
[5]05:12:50
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : He did a lot for Savannah in his own private way. Uh, uh,
in the creation of that Raspart Street (SP?) museum is just the needed and it's
very helpful people coming to Savannah want to know something about the history
and it's all there at that, uh, museum, it was the rage at his savings bank.
[5]05:13:18
INTERVIEWER : What about your own legacy?
[5]05:13:27
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : I, uh, I, I never knew I had one so, uh, I'm proud of what
I I'm going to be 85, uh, 95 tomorrow and I am proud that my, um, children and
grandchildren are proud of what we, their (STAMMERS) grandfather has, uh, their
father and grandfather's accomplished in his lifetime. Not that I've been
successful to any extent but I have been happy in being able to be a good
Savannah citizen and to work towards the welfare of our community.
[5]05:14:07
INTERVIEWER : In terms of legal aid and legal services?
[5]05:14:11
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : I just happen to be an individual that had the benefit of
being able to do something in creating legal aid and achieve the title of father
of legal aid in Georgia thanks to the younger lawyers because they are the ones
that gave me that title.
[5]05:14:29
INTERVIEWER : Do you recall anything about the Dixon case?
[5]05:14:53
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : Not for the moment I think the, uh, with all due respect I
find it being 95 tomorrow (UNINTELLIGIBLE) [5]05:15:03
INTERVIEWER : Are there any other things that come to mind?
[5]05:15:14
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : You know, the interesting thing to me (STAMMERS) and it
will always be in regard by me as being typical of the law profession was that
it was the young lawyers not the older lawyers that led the movement and it
created actually, actually created an, the, uh, it was not Sol Clark it was the
young lawyers of Georgia who took the money that was, that was sealed and pushed
the program throughout the state of Georgia.
[5]05:15:48
INTERVIEWER : But obviously--
[5]05:15:48
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : (OVERLAPPING) And in line with what is, uh, lawyers traditions.
[5]05:15:53
INTERVIEWER : It seems to be to be a departure.
[5]05:16:08
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : Correct but it's a part of American jurisprudence now and
not just Georgia and so, uh, I'm glad that we're a part of that movement.
[5]05:16:17
INTERVIEWER : Was Georgia one of the first in the country to have--
[5]05:16:22
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : I, uh, don't know of that I think (STAMMERS) by reason of
the northern lawyers being ahead of us in that respect that it is an American
movement before it got to Savannah.
[5]05:16:40
INTERVIEWER : Was there any opposition to the fact that it was money coming from
the Federal government?
[5]05:16:46
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : (OVERLAPPING) No, no, no it's very interesting there may
have been anti Federalists but they always take the money.
[5]05:16:57
INTERVIEWER : Same with the new deal too.
[5]05:16:58
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : Yeah, of course you, you got to keep in mind they said
after all it's our money we're putting, we are the ones that pay the taxes.
[5]05:17:06
INTERVIEWER : So there wasn't any opposition to LBJ Johnson's administration?
[5]05:17:10
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : No question whatsoever no, nothing, no, no objection was
raised by anybody.
[5]05:17:16
INTERVIEWER : Where did Jimmy Carter fit in?
[5]05:17:24
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : Yeah, well (STAMMERS) Jimmy Carter was of course, uh, a
liberal (UNINTELLIGIBLE) from the very beginning and so we had never had any
problems when he was governor because he encouraged legal aid movement.
[5]05:17:40
INTERVIEWER : At first the money came from Maddox.
[5]05:17:44
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : No they came from Johnson but Maddox had to accept that in
Maddox did (UNINTELLIGIBLE) about it so it was just the impression on these
young lawyers. Look Maddox the man who uses a (SOUNDS LIKE) sub gun. (LAUGH)
And, uh, an axe you, you're right.
[5]05:18:07
INTERVIEWER : What did you feel going into that meeting with Maddox?
[5]05:18:11
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : It was, it, it never (STAMMERS) it was so unexpected that
nobody even raised a question 'cause here (UNINTELLIGIBLE) it's our money
(STAMMERS) but Maddox accepted it so but without any question without any
speech. And when he turned he, he said we'll take the money something like that.
And these young lawyers and I were just as amazed as anybody else.
[5]05:18:39
INTERVIEWER : Do you remember who else was in the room?
[5]05:18:43
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : No, but they are their names are on that list. Everyone of
those lawyers did a, took part at various times, you know, (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
legal aid in Georgia.
[5]05:18:57
INTERVIEWER : So that's the real turning point?
[5]05:19:01
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : Oh, definitely, I'll never forget, uh, that, uh, first of
all that they had postponed action in deference to my being absent and then when
the money came from that time forward they did not have any further opposition
to creating legal aid wherever the lawyers wanted it.
[5]05:19:26
INTERVIEWER : Now 30 years later?
[5]05:19:27
JUDGE H. SOL CLARK : 30 years later it's a successful movement nationally and of
course in Georgia, and especially in Savannah.
[END OF TAPE: [5]05:19:52]
