Interview with Barbara Clowers, St. Peter Claver, Macon

Digital Library of Georgia
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00:00:00 - Introduction, St. Peter Claver School, Mother Cleophus

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Partial Transcript: BMiddlebrooks Okay, my name is Betty Middlebrooks and this is September 19, 2019. I am interviewing Barbara Clowers for the first time, and this interview is taking place at the Diocesan office, Pastoral Center in Savannah. This interview is sponsored by St. Peter Claver Catholic Church and School. It is a part of the Black Catholic History interviews. Okay Barbara, first let me thank you for agreeing to this interview. I want you to think back, go back in time, and tell us what you remember about your earliest days at St. Peter Claver and school.

BClowers Well, as a child, I would go to St. Peter Claver [00:01:00] to mass sometimes with Mrs. Essie Hutchings who was the organist at that time, and a dear friend of my late mother’s. In the early sixties, I was not Catholic, but Mother Cleophas [1]. who was sort of a person who wanted her way, and had her way. She was not the type of person to just say “yes, yes” to everything Father Galvin had asked. And Father Galvin [2] as an Irish priest and very accustomed to running a very lean school. I think tuition was about ten dollars per month at that time. But anyway, Mother Cleophas said that she was not going to collect [00:02:00] students’ fees and try to teach a class too. That she wanted a certified teacher to come in and teach her eighth grade classes. My sister, at that time, was Catholic, and still is. She said [to Mother Cleophas] “Well, my sister is a teacher and she’s not working, she’s staying home with her children.” So she [Mother Cleophas] said “Well, will she come?” and she [my sister] said, “I’ll ask.” And I did, I went. And the first time I went, was to the kindergarten classroom. That was Mrs. Davis, Mrs. Mary Davis [3], who was about four feet tall. Everybody loved Mrs. Davis. And everybody wanted their children to be in her [00:03:00] kindergarten class, especially the teachers in Macon and Bibb County. But Mrs. Davis’s mother died the second—about the second day into school, and Mother Cleophas called me and asked me if I would come and teach this class.

BClowers Well, the children had not gotten acclimated to school. They had not, um, they talked with their fingers in their mouths. They were just sort of very shy. And uh, it was sort of hard—it’s the hardest work I have ever done in my life. Especially, there was no air conditioning, there was no fans, no screens at the windows. [00:04:00] And these children sat at these cute little tables, and um, there was no lunch room. Everybody, all the parents made lunches for their children. So every child had a cute little Shirley Temple lunchbox with a thermos inside. And inside those boxes was Kool-Aid, inside those thermoses was Kool-Aid. Well, there were about sixty plus children every day. In fact, Mrs. Davis’s classroom is now two classrooms. They made it into two classrooms when St. Peter Claver was redesigned—well, yes, redesigned—on that floor. By the time I would go around and get all these thermoses open, the children would eat [00:05:00] their little lunch and then they would try to start putting the tops back onto the thermoses. And the thermoses—they couldn’t get them on straight and they were spilling Kool-Aid on the table where they had to work. Flies were everywhere. The tables were sticky. It was hot. So, I told Mother Cleophas I just had to have some help to at least get those thermoses back on because it took a long time for me to go to sixty children and put thermoses back—to screw the tops back on. But anyway, it was, like on Friday evening, the floors were so sticky, that I mopped. Every Friday, I would mop. The two Fridays I was there, I would mop the floors. And uh, [00:06:00] maybe change the water three times. That was the hardest work I’ve ever done in my life. But, it was so enjoyable.

Segment Synopsis: Mrs. Clowevs explains how she started work at SPC school and the hardships she overcame. No air conditioning, no windows, and pesky thermoses are among her challenges.

Keywords: Mrs. Essie Hutchings; Mrs. Mary Davis; Sr. M. Cleophas Hubby, S.B.S. (1923-2003); St. Peter Claver Catholic School

Subjects: Catholic Church--Education; Sisters of the Blessed Sacrament; St. Peter Claver Parish (Macon, Ga.); St. Peter Claver School (Macon, Ga.)

GPS: St. Peter Claver Church and School, 131 Ward St, Macon, GA 31204
Map Coordinates: 32.843858, -83.649573
00:06:13 - Father Coleman, Church Integration, Confirmation

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Partial Transcript: BMiddlebrooks Talk to me about Fr. William Coleman [4].

BClowers Father Coleman came to Macon, I think, to integrate the schools and the churches. And uh, it was said that uh—this is ugly to say on tape especially—that the people at St. Joseph told him “this is our school and our church.” But, Father Coleman did things to bring the schools—to right interactions between the parishioners at Holy Spirit, St. Peter Claver, and St. Joseph [5]. We had [00:07:00] picnics. We had various outings. I think the beautiful thing, and I don’t know whether they do it now or not, was Confirmation. Parents had to attend Confirmation classes. And it was held at St. Peter Claver. So, the people from St. Joseph had to come to lowly St. Peter Claver for Confirmation. But the actual Confirmation ceremony was held at St. Joseph, in their basement, and it was beautiful. I remember candles being around some of the posts and the candles were down in sand. It was just beautiful. But it brought us together and we got a chance to interact with one another. But I don’t know whether any of that is going on now or not.

BMiddlebrooks So when he [Father Coleman] came, he came to work with all [00:08:00] three parishes? Not just—

BClowers No, he was with St. Joseph. He was the priest at St. Joseph. But, the goal was to integrate St. Joseph, St. Peter Claver, and Holy Spirit and try to bring about a good Christian relationship between the three.

Segment Synopsis: Mrs. Clowevs tells how Father William Cole assisted with the desegregation of the churches in Macon. Holding different education classes and sacraments at different churches helped.

Keywords: Confirmation--Catholic Church; Desegregation; St. Joseph's Parish; integration

Subjects: Coleman, Rev. William; School integration--United States; Social integration--Religious aspects; St. Joseph Parish (Macon, Ga.)

GPS: St. Joseph's Parish and School
Map Coordinates: 32.837055, -83.633659
00:08:25 - Sam Hall Construction, School Maintenance

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Partial Transcript: BMiddlebrooks Okay, Sam Hall Construction Company, you remember you all had a relationship with him?

BClowers Mr. Willie S—William—I think his name was Willie Smith, he worked for Sam Hall. And he—this was when the men would go over and do the playground once a year. During the summer, while the children were out of school, the men would go over and take care of the playground. Get the equipment [00:09:00] painted, refurbished, whatever needed repairing. And Mr. Smith, working for Sam Hall who was in construction, he would bring his—the big machinery over there and whatever was needed, level off things. It was just a beautiful relationship because we [the school] didn’t pay anybody to do anything then. Absolutely nobody. Nobody was paid.

Segment Synopsis: Mrs. Clowevs was grateful to Sam Hall Construction Company for providing playground maintenance every year free of charge. She is particularly thankful to Mr. Willis Smith.

Keywords: Sam Hall Construction Company; Smith, Willis

Subjects: Playground

00:09:27 - Evangelization Mission, Community Engagement, The Koch Foundation, Youth Field Trips

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Partial Transcript: BMiddlebrooks Okay. Now, when Fr. Liam Collins [6] came, he gave you—well, he asked you to serve on a special ministry—the Evangelization Ministry. You were the first to work in that ministry. You were the chair of that ministry. Want to talk to us little bit about that and how that got started?

BClowers Well, Father [Collins] was concerned. I called him the “Little Leprechaun.” He was concerned that St. Peter Claver was [00:10:00] in the midst of a Black community and that the church was getting more, quote “pale.” And he wanted us to keep the relationship within the community as much as possible. So, we did some neat things. We were funded by the Koch Foundation [7], whose daughter [the founder’s daughter] happened to be a pilot. She flew up to Macon to interview us because they funded us several years to do the work that we did. And we involved the children across the street—there was a cul-de-sac across the street with a lot of children. We also involved children from the Booker T. Washington Community Center [8]. And we would take them. [00:11:00] But we also had our own [school] children. So, we wanted to bring—we wanted to try to bring people together to show God’s love. To not proselytize, but to just show God’s love in the community and that St. Peter Claver is here if you need us. And I can remember the Sisters giving out bread to people in that cul-de-sac. But those children came over and they—we took them to CNN [in Atlanta]. We chartered a bus to CNN. We took them to Perry, Georgia, to the Agricenter [State Fairgrounds] in Perry [00:12:00].

BMiddlebrooks Nutcracker.

BClowers Yeah, forgot about that! Yeah, we took them to the Nutcracker. And this is where the funding came in so good from Koch Foundation, because we could buy these children’s tickets. We would take them to the Museum of Arts and Sciences [in Macon], to see the Christmas trees once a year, and we were always praised for how well the children acted. So—

BMiddlebrooks Did part of that funding also go to the vacation bible school?

BClowers Right, vacation bible school was also done. And we—I’m trying to think, I don’t want to leave anything out. I’ve mentioned CNN, oh, the Air Museum. We took them down [00:13:00] to the Air Museum also. We wanted to give these children enrichment because any child can learn what’s in a book. But they didn’t have the enrichment that they needed. And I knew how important that was, and so we tried to take them out to places where they ordinarily would not have gone. It was a wonderful time and I miss it, but I’m too old to do it now [laughs].

Segment Synopsis: The Koch Foundation used to fund youth activities for all the children in the community. Some trips the school took were to CNN in Atlanta, the Agricenter Fairgrounds in Perry, Ga, the Museum of Arts and Sciences in Macon, and to see the Nutcracker ballet.

Keywords: CNN Center; Collins, Rev. Liam; Evangelization Mission; Koch Foundation; Mighty Eighth Air Force Museum, Savannah; Museum of Arts and Sciences; Vacation Bible schools

Subjects: CNN newsroom; Koch Cancer Foundation; Museum of Arts and Sciences Macon (Ga.); National Council for Catholic Evangelization; National Museum of the Mighty Eighth Air Force Savannah (Ga.); Vacation Bible schools

GPS: Location of Perry, Georgia
Map Coordinates: 32.455159, -83.735748
00:13:39 - First Communion, Mrs. Clower's Children and Grandchildren, Mount de Sales Academy

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Partial Transcript: BMiddlebrooks Okay, when did you actually become—I know you were there all the time—but when did you actually become Catholic?

BClowers I think it was in 1970, maybe it was 1970, and it was a large class. I don’t think there has been a [00:14:00] larger class in RCIA [9]. Father O’Sullivan [10] was the priest then. He really rushed us through, and we—it was just a beautiful time. And I think we had maybe had our first communion—I’m trying to think, was it—I don’t remember if it was at Christmas or during the spring, like when they normally do it [11]. Maybe it was in the spring. As I said, Father O’Sullivan was the priest at the time.

BMiddlebrooks Okay. And then you had two children that went to St. Peter Claver and graduated from Mount de Sales, correct [12]?

BClowers One son. The son graduated from Mount de Sales. The daughter went to South Carolina and graduated from a school over there.

BMiddlebrooks Okay. [00:15:00] What about grandchildren?

BClowers Grandson went to, my son’s son, went to Mount de Sales and was quite a smart young man. Very proud of him. He works with an electrical engineering company in Norcross, Georgia. Mount de Sales prepared him well; of course, he was a very focused young man. So, he was a Georgia Tech graduate.

Segment Synopsis: Mrs. Clowers became Catholic in 1970 and has a son who graduated from Mount de Sales. She also has a grandson who attended Mount de Sales, but graduated from Georgia Tech.

Keywords: Mount de Sales Academy; RCIA

Subjects: Celebrating the Eucharist; First communion--Baptists, [Catholic Church, etc.]; Mount de Sales Academy, Macon (Ga.); Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults

GPS: Mount de Sales Academy, 851 Orange St, Macon, GA 31201
Map Coordinates: 32.834745, -83.639800
00:15:39 - Essie Hutchins, Mrs. Clowers' Family and Testimony, Initial Catholic Concerns

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Partial Transcript: BMiddlebrooks Okay, Katy, do you have any other questions?

KLockard Well, I was just interested to hear a little bit about your story of why you chose to become Catholic. You know, you sounded like you were part of the community, and maybe you can talk just a little bit about that sort of journey?

BClowers Well, I guess [00:16:00] the journey had started early with Mrs. Essie Hutchings [13], who was the organist years and years ago. Then when my sister married a Catholic, and my sister-in-law—my husband’s sister—married a Catholic—they lived in South Carolina—I guess I was thinking about my children too. If something happen to us, what would happen to my children? And plus, the priest—maybe I shouldn’t say this—but he didn’t have problems with not having a large family. And that was a concern to me because my mother died when I was five years old. [00:17:00] Childbirth and pneumonia. We were little stair-steps. I was the oldest at five years old and twelve days. So I just had a problem with the Catholic Church’s view on contraceptives and things of that sort. [14] But as I say, Father O’Sullivan, he was a different kind of person [laughs]. And he said he came up very, very poor, so maybe that’s why he had some of the thoughts that he had about it. It made me feel like, “well, you can come to the Catholic Church,” you know. So that was, I guess, my motivation. Plus, I was—I was at a church—at the Presbyterian church, [00:18:00] which was my mother’s church, and it was—at that time, it was a dying church. It was just a few families and I was playing for church, teaching Sunday school, doing the flowers, you know, and I just felt like I was washed out. And I told my husband, “I am going to leave the Presbyterian church and I’m going to the Catholic church.” And he said “I will go too.”

Segment Synopsis: Mrs. Clowers chose to become Catholic from two influences: the kindness of Ms. Essie Hutchings, and watching her family members become or marry into Catholicism.

Keywords: Contraceptives; Mrs. Essie Hutchings (1894-1961)

Subjects: Birth control--Religious aspects--Catholic Church; Conversion--Baptists, [Catholic Church, etc.]; Essie Hutchings (1894-1961)

00:18:35 - Essie Hutchins Background, Hutchins Funeral Home

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Partial Transcript: BMiddlebrooks Okay. Now, in a lot of the interviews I’ve done, Mrs. Essie Hutching’s name came up a lot.

BClowers Yeah, she—

BMiddlebrooks So she was very well known in the community, wasn’t she?

BClowers Yeah, she grew up—she was in a convent at one time.

BMiddlebrooks Oh, okay.

BClowers Yeah, in a Catholic school, boarding school. And she married Willie Hutchings, of Hutchings Funeral Home. And she was sort of like, I guess, a mentor to my mother. And a very dear friend of hers, but she was a very devout Catholic. And she played the organ there for years.

BMiddlebrooks Okay. Thank you very much, Barbara.

[End of interview]

Segment Synopsis: Essie married Willie Hutchins of Hutchins Funeral Home. She was part of a convent for a time, and played the organ for St. Peter Claver for over 30 years.

Keywords: Hutchings Funeral Home

Subjects: Essie Hutchins (1894-1961)

GPS: Hutchings Funeral Home, 536 New Street, Macon Georgia 31201
Map Coordinates: 32.836468, -83.633511