Interview with Broderick Flanigan, July 29, 2015

00:00:01Alexander Stephens: It is July 29, 2015. My name is Alexander Stephens, and we're in the Richard B. Russell Special Collections Libraries building in Athens, Georgia. Could you introduce yourself please and give your year of birth and place of birth?

00:00:16Broderick Flanigan: Yes, my name is Broderick Flanigan. I was born and raised here in Athens, Georgia in 1983.

00:00:24Stephens: Thanks, Broderick. Today we're going to talk a little bit about Broderick's childhood in Athens, growing up here, his experiences in neighborhoods around town, some of the changes that he's seen in town, as well as the work that he's been doing since returning after college. And so we'll start from the beginning, I guess, or actually, I'd like to start a little bit before you were born. You mentioned once that your family has deep roots in Athens, at least on one side. And I was hoping you could just share a little bit of what you know, about your family's history in Athens.

00:01:04Flanigan: Ah, okay. Most of my family's history, of course, a lot of that happened before I was born, before I was even here. So I got a second hand from my father, my uncles, and my mother and my grandmother. And it was interesting to find out that some of my family members on my mom's side, my grandfather, he was actually an entrepreneur. He had a barbecue business and a wood business. So he sold wood during, I guess, the colder months when people used to heat their homes or cook with it or whatever--

00:01:38Flanigan: --And what was his name?

00:01:39Flanigan: Uhm Ted Bullock, yes. So yes, and they lived off of Martin Luther King, not Martin Luther, well, it is Martin Luther King now, but it used to be called Water Street, which is right there on the, what is that, Oconee River or North Oconee, yeah. So yeah, they were living there. And they were there for, my mom, she was in that house and she grew up in that house. So, yeah, so they were there for a number of years, like thirty, forty years or maybe more. And then my father, his family was in the Newtown area, which is on Cleveland Avenue, which is right over there by, like going towards College Avenue near downtown.

00:02:26Stephens: --Off Barber Street.

00:02:27Flanigan: Right, right, right. Yeah, my dad used to tell me stories about him just hanging around the neighborhood and how they used to go like inline skating, and I guess they would call it rollerblading, but they were on four wheels back then, so it wasn't rollerblading, but they would go skating and stuff. And he told me about how they had a general store over there called Cantrell, where everybody would shop there and just get all kinds of things. And he was saying he used to go there and buy candy for like a penny a lot of times. And actually when I was growing up, I uhm, I would visit my grandmother's house the store was still open when I was like younger like maybe five or six and I would go there and buy candy for like ten cent and this was in like the mid-80s, mid to late-80s--

00:03:14Flanigan: --And these were the Flanigans?

00:03:15Flanigan: --Yeah, the Flanigans, Flanigans. Yeah, and then my mom's side was the Bullocks. Yeah.

00:03:20Stephens: Okay, so what about you what what neighborhood were you, I guess, what was the earliest neighborhood you were living in, in town?

00:03:29Flanigan: The earliest neighborhood I was living in, in town, was off of the Water Street area and it was a very vivid experience for me and a lot of people joke nowadays as my generation being one of the last generation is to be able to really freely roam around a neighborhood and I guess the parents not so much worried about something happening to the kids. I would walk all over the neighborhood and go to different neighbor's house and play with friends and and just sometimes explore the neighborhood on my own or either with a group of us.

00:04:09Stephens: What was the--who lived in the neighborhood at that point? It sounds like it was mostly people who knew each other or family for you or because I know you had roots there.

00:04:18Flanigan: Yeah, yeah it was definitely people that knew each other and that had been in the neighborhood for a long period of, periods of time. There was a, uhm lot of people that lived in our neighborhood went to the same church. We went to uhm, it was called Back to the Bible. And I can't remember if it was like a specific denomination, but I think it was like a Southern Baptist type of church. And so all of my neighbors, not all of them, but a good majority of my neighbors, like I know the house next door to us, the Taylors, I think it was Jean Taylor and Charles. They lived right next door to us and then across the street from their house, I think it was like Third Street maybe. And there was a lady that lived there who also attended the church, Ms. Jones, we called her Mother Jones. And then behind us there was another family that lived on top of the hill and we knew them as well. And I would frequent their house. They had a daughter who was a little bit older than me, but I would go up there sometimes and play with her. So, yeah.

00:05:25Stephens: What kind of stuff did y'all do for fun? Roaming the neighborhood freely. (both laugh)

00:05:29Flanigan: Oh yeah, we used to, I liked riding skateboards and stuff, so I would take my skateboard and just ride down the hills, it was a lot of hills in the neighborhood. So I would do that and I would, I had a bike, several bikes actually, and different toys I would have and just taking them with me and going exploring. I didn't get to go over across the street because of the river and stuff was over there so I had to stay on this side. But, t here was a lot of times when we would get together and just either play games like tag or something like that or just a lot of various things.

00:06:05Stephens: And was it pretty much all families at that point in the neighborhood?

00:06:08Flanigan: Yeah, yeah, pretty much it was just families that had been there for generations you could say.

00:06:13Stephens: I know it's a historically African American neighborhood, right?

00:06:16Flanigan: Yes.

00:06:17Stephens: So was it pretty much all Black families at that point?

00:06:19Flanigan: Yes, it was all Black families. Yes.

00:06:25Stephens: You grew up, you mentioned the church you grew up in. Did you, could you keep attending that church or did you end up going somewhere else later on?

00:06:35Flanigan: Uhm, no I stopped attending that church probably when I was around eleven, maybe, ten or eleven. And then we went, well my mom and dad, we didn't go to church every Sunday. My grandmother, she went to church though, religiously. And I would go with her sometimes. And that's kind of when I--when we switched churches, when my Mom's mom, she passed in like '97. And then that's kind of when our affiliation with the first church kind of came to a halt. Not altogether, but we didn't go as much because she was the one that was going like every Sunday to that particular church. And then my father's, his mom, she was going to a different church. She was going to Ebenezer West. Which is a long standing historical Black, historically Black church here in Athens off of Chase Street.

00:07:27Stephens: And you're a member there now, right?

00:07:29Flanigan: Yes, I'm a current member there to this day. So I've been going there off and on for my entire life almost. Yeah.

00:07:34Stephens: Okay. After you left, actually, did anybody, was there a name for that neighborhood on Water Street? Did anybody call the area anything in particular?

00:07:45Flanigan: Mmm, no, not that I remember.

00:07:48Stephens: Okay. Yeah. So when you moved from there, where'd you go next?

00:07:53Flanigan: Oh, that's a good question. Um, my family, um, moved around a lot after, after that. Um, what, I mean, I guess to give you a little bit of background about the family. Um, after my grandmother passed, uh, my mom was in a, in a situation to take over the property and she ended up kind of, she ended up losing the property actually. And, uh, my uncle, one of my uncles actually ended up buying it a few years later after it was on the, uh, I guess on the market for a while. One of my uncles ended up, um, acquiring the property and the house and he, uh, rented it out to students, actually students and other tenants, so--

00:08:34Stephens: --Over on Water Street or?--

00:08:35Flanigan: Over on Water Street, yes.

00:08:36Stephens: Okay.

00:08:37Flanigan: Yeah.

00:08:38Flanigan: So those, I guess, would have been some of the first students probably coming into the neighborhood.

00:08:43Flanigan: Probably so. And that was in like the, maybe the mid, mid-90s. Yeah. And I think the first neighborhood we moved to after we left there, I remember staying with one of my aunts for a while on Danielsville Road. And then we moved back in town to like, it was maybe like Rocksprings or Athens Arms. But we ended up living, living in both, in both of those housing communities. But I can't remember which one was first.

00:09:12Stephens: Okay. And then when did you go to Newtown? How'd you end up in Newtown?

00:09:16Flanigan: Um, I ended up in Newtown, um --when my um-- let's see. I ended up in Newtown after, um, we left, uh, Rocksprings, I believe. My grandmother was living there. She was living there her entire life, almost. And, um, so yeah, we went to, we went to live with her for a while. Yeah, my father, my mom, and my brothers and sisters. I'm actually the oldest of five. I have four younger siblings.

00:09:42Stephens: Wow.

00:09:43Stephens: Yeah.

00:09:44Stephens: What, uh, what was Newtown like at that point? When you were living there, or just even from earlier, when you would go to visit your grandmother, what memories do you have of that community?

00:09:56Flanigan: Um, Newtown was similar to the Water Street area, but there was a white family that lived there though, um, and I can't remember their last names at this current--current moment. But yeah, there was a white family living in the neighborhood, and I used to, 'cause I used to play with--one of--one of the sons that lived there. But it was, it was very similar though, 'cause we used to be able to go walk all over the neighborhood, going back into Newtown, and there were a couple of streams and natural little waterways in the--in the back of the properties behind my grandmother's house, and we would kinda, like, make little trails through the woods and kinda explore those little streams and follow 'em back, back into the woods and stuff. And yeah. I mean, just normal stuff that young, young guys did, or little boys did, just out of curiosity and stuff like that, yeah.

00:10:53Stephens: Did your grandmother ever talk to you about the history of--of that place?

00:10:59Flanigan: Um, not, not too much. Um, like I was saying, she used to talk about, like, the wash house that used to be there. It was mostly, like, landmarks that they would tell us about. Like, yeah, back in the day, there used to be this in the neighborhood. There was a wash house down the street, and, um, I would hear, like, little bits and pieces of different stories of people they knew, or somebody getting into an argument with somebody else, and something like that, or somebody who went to school with somebody, or either played sports together, and stuff like that.

00:11:27Stephens: What schools did you go to growing up?

00:11:32Flanigan: I went to several schools. In elementary, I went to Gaines School, and at the time, they were building a school by the name of Fourth Street Elementary. And by the time that school was constructed, I was in the first grade, and that's when I switched schools. So I left Gaines School, I went to Gaines School in kindergarten, then I went to Fourth Street, all the way up to about 4th grade. And then in fourth grade, I actually went to three different elementary schools. I was at Fourth, I started off at Fourth Street, and then I went to--I went to Chase Street for maybe about two months maybe, and then I ended up at Fowler Drive, and that was around the time when I was telling you about, we moved around, we went to my aunt's house for a while, and then we moved again. But in middle school, I ended up going to Hillsman Middle School, and that's when I was living on the east side of Athens, in the Nellie B housing community, and then I came back after I moved from--from that side of town, and I went to Clarke Central to finish up my high school.

00:12:46Stephens: How would you characterize your experience in Clarke County schools?

00:12:52Flanigan: It was always pretty good for me. It was great for me, from what I remember. I loved going to school. I would try to get perfect attendance awards every year, and my parents really pushed education. They really understood the importance of education, and my mom was very dedicated to getting me an early start. She used to buy me a lot of educational toys, a lot of toys that would read to you or would read along with you, you can read along with. One in particular, a toy that I remember, and I used to love it to death, it was called Teddy Ruxpin. It was like you put a tape in his back and he'd read along a story with you or something like that. But she was very big on education, and I think that was because she herself didn't finish high school. She ended up not finishing, not getting her diploma. But yeah, it was a great experience. And in middle school, I had a great time. The Olympics were coming to Athens back in '96. And we had this thing called the Hillsman Olympics, where we had different countries represented by different wings in the school--and uh-- or different colors represented by different rings in the school. And they kind of correlated with the Olympic rings. Like we had a yellow, a red, green, and like I think it was Black maybe. Or orange, something like that. But yeah, we had different teams and stuff. And we had a competition towards like the end of the school year, the year the Olympics came. So it was very exciting.

00:14:32Stephens: So even though y'all were moving around a lot, it sounds like school was always a priority.

00:14:38Flanigan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. And I ended up meeting a mentor, one of my mentors when I was in the sixth grade, when I was like eleven years old. And he reinforced that as well, like the education piece, the importance of that. He always asked me about my homework and he was just kind of keeping up with me to make sure that I was taking care of business in the classroom. And he would always ask for my report card every time my report card came out. I mean, he did that for several, several kids in the community, and he worked at the East Athens Community Center a long time. He actually retired from Leisure Services, so he was like one of the, not the program manager, but like the program specialist, I guess, the person right up under the program manager, and he kind of ran the facility.

00:15:23Stephens: Who was that?

00:15:24Stephens: That was Wayne Fairfax.

00:15:26Stephens: So, someone working in the community, at the community center, just took an interest in you?

00:15:31Flanigan: Right, right, definitely. And he noticed that I was doing well in school, and I was making all A's and B's. This was middle school, of course,(laughs) but a little bit of that changed when I got to high school, especially my last year. But yeah, in middle school, he definitely took a notice, and he saw that I was doing well, and he kind of wanted to stay on me and make sure I kept doing well. And he introduced me to--basketball, helped me learn how to swim, music, he got me my first trumpet. He was a jazz musician himself and he used to play a saxophone. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, he introduced me to jazz music. You know, I love it. I love jazz music, yeah.

00:16:13Stephens: You had a sort of mentor at home when it came to art education, right? How'd you get interested in art?

00:16:21Flanigan: Yeah, my mom, she would do a lot of sketching and a lot of drawings. And I remember watching her sometimes do that when I was younger, when I was maybe like about five, maybe or maybe even younger than that. But I would sit down with her sometimes and I would actually draw and ask her to show me how to draw stuff. She would draw like these really fluffy clouds and stuff like that. She would do like perspective drawings. With the buildings and the three--dimensional like building like a skyline almost and she taught me how to do that and I would just sit there and practice that for hours and hours on end and that's kind of when I developed started develop a love for art and drawing. So yeah, my mom kind of introduced me to that.

00:17:07Stephens: Was that reinforced in school? Did you get much arts education?

00:17:11Flanigan: Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. Um, especially when I got to middle school the middle school level uhm because I was always drawing in class like--not in class during instruction-- but like a while after I got done with my assignment I would take out a piece of paper and just start drawing some stuff or just, just playing around with a pencil and kind of practicing sometimes but some of my teachers began to notice and even the art teacher kind of took an interest in it and was trying to help foster that. I remember Miss Campbell and Miss Brassy at Hillsman Middle School. They even pushed me to kind of get into the art club and it was a little different for me as far as like being in like a club type organization, but I ended up trying it out and I liked it.

00:17:59Stephens: At that point did you think you would end up doing something with art for a living or in a bigger capacity?

00:18:09Flanigan: (laughs) It's funny that you would say that because even like when I was in elementary school I had always dreamed of being an architect. (laughs) And I just thought that I would be designing buildings, because I used to love to draw buildings and cityscapes and things of that nature, so I just thought that that would be my career field. And then I found out how much math architecture took (laughs), and I wasn't the best or the fondest person of math, the subject of math. But no, not at that point. I did not think I would be making a career as like a visual artist, not at all. It was just something that I like to do, that I would kind of do to take my mind off of things sometimes, like even when I get frustrated, even now sometimes, like I'll go to the studio and I'll put on some jazz music and I'll just sit there and get lost in my art. And that's what I used to do as a kid. I didn't realize that's what was going on then, but looking back on it now, that was kind of my venting mechanism or my escape.

00:19:09Stephens: I definitely wanna talk more about what you're doing with art now. But to go back to middle school, I guess, you were talking about some of your art teachers there, and at that point you were living in Nellie B.

00:19:22Stephens: Right, correct.

00:19:24Stephens: That part of town has a--I guess it's often portrayed by outsiders from the community, people from Athens but not from Nellie B, or what people often call the "Iron Triangle," that part of town as being dangerous. And I want, to give you a chance to say what you think about that perception as someone who lived there in the mid-90s.

00:19:46Flanigan: Yeah. Uhm--

00:19:50Flanigan: --Is that a fair, is that--

00:19:51Flanigan: --Yeah, yeah that's very fair--

00:19:52Flanigan: --fair to say that, that's the, that's how a lot of people portray it?

00:19:54Flanigan: --Yeah, yeah that's how some people still portray it today and I'm glad you brought that up. But it's a lot of different perspectives and dynamics you can look at when speaking about that. Because, yes, studies have shown there's a correlation between poverty and crime. And in low poverty areas, there may be a perception or there may be actual crime going on. But a lot of it gets, I think, sensationalized because people don't really know what's actually going on in the community on a daily basis.

00:20:29Stephens: What was going on for you? Like in the mid-90s living in Nellie B, for you, what were you seeing?

00:20:35Flanigan: In the mid-90s growing up in Nellie B, I was seeing a lot of, just a lot of kids running around and being kids. I mean, we would run through the neighborhood and go over different people's houses and eat snacks and play games, play video games. And we would go to the gym a lot, the community center. We were there on a daily basis, playing basketball, getting coached in basketball. Going to the swimming pool, a lot. Sometimes we would go there after hours (laughs) when we weren't supposed to be. But that's some of the things that we were doing as kids and some of the things I saw. There were always a lot of programs going on, a lot of people coming to the community. I remember a summer lunch program in Nellie B, which is, I think, still going on to this day.--I don't know, I mean, the sad part for me is that a lot has changed, but hasn't changed in all those years, even from like the mid-90s to now, I still see kids over there, or men now that are over there that I grew up with, in the same neighborhood, in the same environment. And I think back to myself, like, wow, like--what made me so different, you know what I mean? I was able to kind of get out of that lifestyle and do other things. And when this person here, who is just as talented or just as smart as me, you know what I mean? But they are still here in this same daily routine. And no, I don't think it's any more dangerous than any other neighborhood, to answer the question that you proposed earlier. 'Cause I live near that neighborhood now. And I feel just as safe as I do there anywhere else in Athens that I have lived before. But yeah, there are certain things that happen there in that neighborhood though, but there are things that happen all over Athens. But yeah, one of the things that I can say that I see is that it's still very similar to what it was back when I was living there in the '90s, mid-'90s.

00:22:54Stephens: It's interesting 'cause your description of it sounds a lot like the other neighborhoods you lived in. Kids running around, going to each other's houses, and that sort of thing, and, um, I, I honestly don't know what the, what the crime statistics are for that area, but that clearly wasn't something that you saw, you know, as someone who lived there. That was not, like, that was not part of it for you.

00:23:17Flanigan: No, not at all.

00:23:19Stephens: That, that's something that I, I wanted to ask because I think that, you know, a lot of times people from, from outside public housing communities don't understand that on the inside, you know--

00:23:32Flanigan: --It's just like any other neighborhood. And I would also like to add that before we moved to the Nellie B housing community, I had my own like doubts and fears about going into that neighborhood because I've never been in that type of environment really before. And I didn't know what to expect and I had heard things. And, um, so I even had my own perceptions of it before moving there. But then after I moved there and got to know some of the kids and they became good friends of mine and my, even perceptions changed, you know what I mean? And it's just about, um, going there and not so much investigating, but, um, maybe, well, maybe even like investigating on some some kind of level, you know what I mean? Just to find out. What what it is about or what's going on in the community. You have to go to the community to just kind of see for yourself. Yeah.

00:24:28Stephens: And it's not to say that, like you said, there are things that happen in every community.

00:24:33Flanigan: Right.

00:24:34Stephens: But, if you don't go and see them, you're you're operating just based on rumor or misperception, potentially, right?

00:24:41Flanigan: Definitely.

00:24:44Stephens: You, you said you finished up school at Clarke Central. You were in Columbus for a couple of years for high school and then you came back.

00:25:00Flanigan: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I had a couple of cousins that went there and graduated before me. And I don't know, my fondest memories of high school was high school basketball. I was very into basketball at that point in my life. That's what I did every single day, rain, sleet, or snow. I went to play basketball. It even kind of took over my love of art. [LAUGH] I put the pencil and the paper down for a second to dribble a basketball. But yeah, and Coach Wade, Coach Billy Wade, yeah.

00:25:36Stephens: I remember Coach Wade.

00:25:37Flanigan: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I had a couple of cousins that went there and graduated before me. And I don't know, my fondest memories of high school was like high school basketball. I was very into basketball at that point in my life. That's what I did every single day, rain, sleet, or snow. I went to play basketball. It even kind of took over my love of art. (laughs) I put the pencil and the paper down for a second to dribble a basketball. But yeah, and Coach Wade, (laughs) Coach Billy Wade, yeah.

00:25:57Stephens: How many times do you think he called you a knucklehead?

00:26:00Flanigan: (laughs) Oh, several, (laughs) hundreds. (laughs)

00:26:03Stephens: I think everybody who came through Clarke Central got called that, whether they were on the team or not. (laughs)

00:26:07Flanigan: Exactly, exactly. (laughs)

00:26:10Stephens: What did it mean to your mom when you graduated?

00:26:13Flanigan: Oh man, it was a proud moment. I was her firstborn, so it was like she got the first one through high school. So now it's time for the next one. But it was a great moment, a very proud moment, yeah.

00:26:27Stephens: And then you went to college?

00:26:28Flanigan: Uh, no.(laughs)

00:26:30Flanigan: Not Not yet.

00:26:31Flanigan: Okay.

00:26:31Flanigan: Yeah, I took a little hiatus. I was done with school for a while. I actually ended up moving to Virginia for a couple of years. And I was up there in Hampton and Newport News. And then I returned to Athens in 2004, so I finished high school in 2002. And then I left and went to Virginia, then came back in 2004.

00:26:55Stephens: And when did you end up at Georgia Southern?

00:26:57Flanigan: I ended up at Georgia Southern in 2005. So from about 2005 until 2011, I was away from Athens. Well, I would come home on the weekends or during the summer sometime to visit. But for the most part, I was away. In Statesboro, Georgia.

00:27:16Stephens: What'd you study there?

00:27:18Flanigan: I have a BS in kinesiology with an emphasis in exercise science.

00:27:22Stephens: Okay.

00:27:23Flanigan: So my original plan was to become an athletic trainer or a physical therapist. And then upon graduating, or a year before I graduated, I found out that they changed the requirements. It used to be you can sit for the certification exam to be an athletic trainer. With just an exercise science degree, which was what I was attending for, and they changed the requirements to where you have to go through an accredited athletic training program now. And so I wasn't able to, I wasn't going to be able to be able to sit for the exam. And that kind of shifted my interests a little bit as far as like career wise because I realized that I wasn't going to be able to sit for a certification exam, which is what you need to practice athletic training, in most states. So, I ended up just finishing up my degree, though, but I had to kind of reevaluate things a whole lot. Yep.

00:28:22Stephens: Then you came back to Athens in 2011. And

00:28:25Stephens: 2011. Yes. And did you end--is that when you ended up substitute teaching? You were teaching for a while?

00:28:31Flanigan: Yes, yes. I was substitute teaching then, and I was also working at Dollar General part--time near my mom's house. 'Cause when I first came back, I moved to my mom's and I stayed there for about six months until I got a place of my own. So I was substitute teaching, working at Dollar General. And then I was still trying to get into the athletic training world and kind of kickstart my career there. So I started volunteering at the high school under a friend of mine that I actually went to high school with. She was an athletic trainer. She went to UGA and got a certification and everything. And I ended up seeing her at one of my brother's football games. And I spoke to her, talked to her. And then I asked her, I was like, "Do you ever need any help?" And she was like, "Yes, yeah, definitely. I need a lot of help all the time." So I was like, "Well, I went to school for this and this and that. And I have a little bit of experience working with athletes. And I want to come and help you out sometime." So I started volunteering at the high school. Yeah, Clarke Central.

00:29:37Stephens: Seems to me that that time right after finishing a degree, particularly undergrad, can be really hard. It's hard to know exactly what direction to take, but it sounds like you found a lot of ways to keep yourself busy and a lot of ways to feel like you were doing something moving forward.

00:29:58Flanigan: That was one of the things I kind of watched my parents go through and their resourcefulness and just their determination to get things done when it needs to be done, they found a way. And that's one of the great things I can say that they passed along to me. Just that resilience and that determination and that persistence to be able to keep going despite what's going on and what you may be dealing with. So yeah, I was able to create a lot of different opportunities. By being persistent, by asking questions, by knocking on people's doors and saying, "These are my skills. This is what I can do. Can we create something for me to do?" And that's kind of what happened at Clarke Central. Eventually, they began paying me to work with the football team and to cover some of the games and stuff like that as a first responder. So I kind of, I guess, created a position for myself at the high school. So yeah, it was pretty cool.

00:30:58Stephens: What kind of work do your parents do?

00:31:01Stephens: Well, my father, he's retired now. He's retired military. He's a Vietnam vet. But for a long time, he was working at the University of Georgia. He was working over there at the Continuing Education Center as a part of the maintenance crew. And also my mom, she ended up getting injured on one of her jobs in the late-90s or early-2000s, I think it was. She got injured on the job. Became disabled, so she wasn't unable to work. Yeah, so that kind of put a, put a strain on the family with her having a limited source of income for those years, but we made it through, we made do.

00:31:46Stephens: So like you said they, they were, they taught you about resilience sounds like.

00:31:51Flanigan: (laughs) Yeah, definitely how to how to do a lot with a little. Yeah.

00:31:56Stephens: Even--even at that point though when you were working at Clarke Central you--you've changed gears since then, right?

00:32:03Stephens: Yeah, drastically. What happened that led you kind of to some of the work that you're doing now with the community? Was there a moment that, or an experience that kind of led you in that direction?

00:32:15Flanigan: There were two that really stand out and every time I tell the story it's like--it--it gets better and better to me, just the journey that it started from, from these experiences. One was, I was substitute teaching here in Athens at, I think it was Barnett Shoals Elementary and a kid asked me to be his mentor and at that time like, I had already had it made up in my mind once I finished college I wanted to come back and get involved in the community and it just like, it presented itself like at the right right moment. And even though I was working like two maybe three jobs at that time and I told the kid that I was like, "I don't know man, I'll talk to some people and see," because I've never done anything like that before because I didn't want to like make a promise to him and then not be able to deliver. So I told him I would check into it and see what I have to do and long story short I ended up accepting it and I talked to the principal and she was saying, "Yes he does need a mentor, you would be perfect for him." And I was like, "Well, cool. I was like, so what do I need to do?" She was like, "Well, go get a background check and talk to Ms. Paula Shilton with the Clarke County Mentor Program." And so I did all of that and got a background check and everything. And then I found out that I actually knew his mother. I went to school with this kid's mom and we went to elementary school together. We've known each other since like fourth grade and it was an awesome experience. And through that experience, through me volunteering with him, and it taught me a lot about myself and just about giving back to the community. And it kind of got the ball rolling. And from there, I was just volunteering everywhere. You know what I mean? And I met Life a few months, maybe that December, right before the first chess conference that he hosted.

00:34:08Stephens: That's Lemuel LaRoche, he goes by "Life the Griot."

00:34:11Flanigan: Yes. And yeah, so that instance right there kind of sparked my community activism. And then as far as the other moment that kind of stood out for me was I was actually going to Athens Tech to work on a second bachelor's degree. I was going to go to their physical therapy assistant program. And it was a two--year program, but it was hard to get into. It was very competitive. They only accepted twenty applicants per year, not per semester, per year. So if I missed one year, I had to wait a whole 'nother year to reapply to the program. So I missed the first year and then I was going to Athens Tech and I was taking some of the prerequisites that I needed. And one of the prerequisites was art appreciation with Ms. Susanna Flanagan. She was my professor at the time.

00:35:04Flanigan: No relation?

00:35:05Flanigan: No relation, no relation. But the same last name spelled it the same way in everything and that stuck out to me as well. And I was like, "Wow, that's very interesting that we have the same last name." But yeah, she was an older white lady. Yeah, but she was the sweetest, sweetest woman. She could tell she had a passion for what she does and that passion kind of transferred into me and it kind of rekindled my passion for the arts. And we were studying all these Renaissance artists and painters and sculptors and just by learning about their experiences and their struggles. Some of the things they went through and some of the things that they did to advance their careers, I was like, "Man, I could do some of this stuff, man." I was like, "I'm a pretty resourceful person." So at that point, by taking that class and engaging with that class every day, I just started back doing my drawings and my paintings. And this was in, what, 2012, I think? And I remember later that next summer, I ended up taking a small business class and that's when I wrote a business plan for this art space that I have today. So it was just those particular moments, taking that art appreciation class and kind of being a mentor to that kid kind of sparked me into the direction that I am in now, which is working with youth through my art programs at my art studio.

00:36:36Stephens: Could you talk about your idea--this is Flanagan's Portrait Studio, right?

00:36:40Flanigan: Yes.

00:36:41Stephens: Could you talk about the vision for that? How it started?

00:36:45Flanigan: Oh, wow. Uhm, well, the vision for that, it definitely changed from when I first initially wrote the business plan. Initially, it was just a way for me to supplement my income when my artwork wasn't selling. So it definitely, in the beginning, was not intended to be geared toward youth. It was more just to have people come in and paint and teach painting classes for mostly adults, actually. And like I said, it was just a way to kind of supplement my income when my art wasn't selling and for me to have a place to store my artwork because I was working out of my kitchen at my modest apartment prior to opening up my art space. And yeah, it kind of just morphed over that first year. Well, it hasn't been quite a year yet since I've been open, but it kind of morphed into a creative space for children to be able to come and be an outlet and kind of be a resource for them to have that creative energy and to share it with people.

00:37:57Stephens: Did your work with the Chess and Community Conference have anything to do with that evolution? Maybe if you could talk a little bit more about that and little bit about what you do with Chess and Community and I'm curious if that affected you know the way that this--the shape the studio has taken.

00:38:14Flanigan: Oh yeah, yeah definitely. Lemuel LaRoche has been like a awesome inspiration to me and I saw his vision when I first met him and I attended the first chess conference because they have an annual chess conference where they have a youth chess tournament and I was in the audience and just seeing what he did with the kids and and how it grew and how it started. It kind of uhm, it gave me a lot of hope and inspiration for my own personal endeavor, being an entrepreneur and also being an activist and working with youth. So, yes, and I ended up serving on the board of Chess and Community as a vice president and more of an assistant director role here as of late and just through working with the kids and doing different activities, taking a group of kids to D.C., Washington, D.C. and and seeing how, the different, the different things we were exposing them to kind of shifted their perceptions of themselves and the world around them. And having them realize how much of an impact they can have and that they do have from that critical thinking standpoint, it was very powerful even for me just to see it and be a part of it and witness it and that became something that I was very dedicated to doing through my passion, which is art. Yeah, Lemuel, he does it through chess. And I was like, "Well, why can't I do the same thing through art?" So yes, it did have an effect. Working with Chess and Community very closely over the past few years has definitely played a part in that, yeah.

00:39:54Stephens: When you say, so talking about what you're doing with kids with art and workshops and that sort of thing, when you say it, it changes their perspective. What is their perspective before? I mean, what do you see in them as far as the way they're looking at the opportunities that they have or what they have access to versus afterwards? I'm curious about what that, you know, the before and the after, what is the before?

00:40:24Flanigan: Well, to me or what I've noticed or what I've seen and what I've heard some of the kids echo is that, you know, they, prior to some of the experiences we share with them, they feel very limited as far as even their ability to be able to, say for instance, go to the University of Georgia. A lot of the kids grow up walking past campus on a daily basis or they drive past campus or drive through campus all the time, but they can't really see themselves as an actual student there at this major university that's right in their hometown, and through engaging with them and through having a chess conference actually on the university's campus every year and through connecting with the UGA chess team and just taking them to different events on campus, different expos and different Clarke County Mentor Program does a Explore UGA Day where they have kids come there and tell them about the college process and what colleges look for as admissions and what you need to be doing as early as middle school to prepare for college and just those type of experiences open their eyes up to, "this can be an option for me now." And not even thinking about the broad spectrum of like taking a group of kids to Washington D.C. that have, some of them never been out of Georgia before or some of them not really have been outside of Athens or Atlanta. And just to see how their perception changes, like we took a tour of Howard University when we went up to Washington, D.C. last time and the kids, the young men, they really enjoyed that and they were like, "Wow, this is awesome. College seems like something that could be for me." And it's just hearing them echo that back or just saying that or coming to that realization it spoke volumes to me. In so many ways, so, so, many ways.

00:42:26Stephens: Was that your perception of UGA growing up here? Did you, did you ever go to campus?

00:42:33Flanigan: No, I uh, (laughs) It's funny that you ask that. I never really sat never really set foot on UGA's campus. I honestly don't remember the first time that I went there. I remember, actually no I'll take that back, I remember going to maybe one or two football games as a youth or a couple of basketball games. But other than that, like just going to the campus, like going through, taking a tour of a classroom or a building or something like that, or sitting in for a presentation or a lecture by a guest speaker, I never really imagined anything like that. And no, I didn't, I couldn't really see myself, I guess, going to the University of Georgia when I was growing up as a kid. Um, yeah--very interesting.

00:43:26Stephens: In addition to what you're doing with the Portrait Studio, you've been involved in the First Fridays initiative. Could you talk a little bit about what that is, how it got started?

00:43:39Flanigan: Yes, definitely. The First Friday event is an event that takes place in East Athens at the East Athens Community Center where non--profits and service organizations come to the community and they tell the residents there or the participants at the event about services and things that are happening around Athens, Georgia and gives them an option to kind of participate in certain things that they may not have learned about otherwise or known about otherwise. And it's kind of evolved into, like a small festival or kids fest because it's catered towards the youth. And I have like a lot of non--profits that come out and do interactive activities with the youth. And the event came about by just me noticing that there were a lot of service organizations in Athens, but a lot of them weren't, well I don't want to say weren't, but a lot of them seems like were a little disconnected from certain parts of the community, of the Athens community--

00:44:43Stephens: --What parts?

00:44:44Flanigan: --Like the lower income parts, the parts that they were intended to serve. They were kind of, they were working with some kids from the neighborhood, but not impacting as many as they could. I don't know if that makes sense, but a lot of non--profits here in Athens are doing great work, but it's like they were they were missing certain pockets of the population where they were designed to interact with or to serve. And so yeah, I saw it as an opportunity to kind of bring those non--profits and those community leaders directly into the community to interact with the kids, to get to know the kids, build a rapport, and to kind of recruit kids possibly for their programs. And I saw it as like a win--win situation for both parties. These kids need these services, these enrichment services or these social services. And these organizations receive resources to serve this population. So why not create something to get them both in the same space, that's a mutual environment or a neutral environment and have them to kind of connect with one another. And I envision the First Friday event growing each year. I want to make it a yearly event, an annual event that runs from May until August. Because I know football season comes around and even high school football on Fridays I don't want to kind of tear people in between having to choose first Fridays or the football game, which I know they would probably choose the football game to support their kids, especially if they're playing on the team. So yeah, I kind of designed the event to run during the summer months when the kids are not really in school and to kind of give them an activity to do and like I said also just foster that community engagement and that social engagement piece.

00:46:41Stephens: And how's it been going this first summer?

00:46:43Flanigan: Man, it's been going great. Actually, I started the event last year. I did it the first time up on North Avenue in the shopping center of the big grocery store up there. I think they call it Piggly Wiggly now. And I did it there and it didn't take on as well as I thought it would in the beginning. I was only serving about maybe ten to fifteen, maybe at the most twenty people at those events. And I still had the non--profit support. I had about five or six non--profits still showing up and coming out. But it just wasn't, I wasn't getting the response from the community. But since I've been doing it at East Athens, it's, it kind of exploded. It kind of like just took off. And at the last event, I think it was seventy--one kids there and about fifty adults, fifty or so adults. And that's an unofficial count because we didn't really have a clicker or anything. We did give out little tickets for giveaways and that's kind of how we kind of kept track of how many people there were. So there could have been even more than that. Yeah.

00:47:51Stephens: I got to come towards the beginning of the summer and it was, there were kids dancing and playing basketball and playing chess--

00:47:58Flanigan: Yes--

00:47:59Flanigan: --And I think you were there doing, making some art with a group of kids.

00:48:03Flanigan: Yeah, some art and face painting.

00:48:05Stephens: And it sounds like it's gotten even bigger since then.

00:48:08Flanigan: Yeah. West Broad Farmers Market, they come out now. A couple of other organizations, they come out to do things. Canopy Studios, they do like trapeze shows. They're a non--profit as well and they come out and they do some exercises and demonstrations for the kids and let them get on the trapeze swings and stuff. So yeah, it's growing. It's rare.

00:48:32Stephens: Are there any particular experiences you've had with kids that have really--moved you or changed you?

00:48:42Flanigan: Yeah, there are a few actually. It's--difficult sometimes because the work that I'm doing and that a lot of others are doing, we don't really get to see the results of it immediately. For myself, sometimes it's like, "Well, am I really having an impact? Like, what am I doing? Am I doing something that this kid's gonna remember that's gonna impact their lives in a positive way, in a meaningful way?" And how do you even measure that, you know what I mean? How do you show that or prove that? And that has been a challenge for me, but from the First Friday event, there was a kid that I was mentoring that I used to pick up, and he was actually staying at a homeless shelter at the time. And he was just, he would talk to me, have conversations with me about different events going on, like in the news and stuff like that. And I would ask him how he feel about certain things. And one thing that stood out that he said to me at one of the First Friday events, and we were talking about the police and how a lot of that interaction with African--American young men has been sensationalized and how the media kind of shows all these police brutality situations without, I don't know, I guess giving like the full scope of things and they keep on showing all these African--American men getting gunned down and it's definitely a tragedy, but the media just keeps portraying the officers as the big, the bad guy, you know what I'm saying, trying to shoot down, shooting down unarmed people. I mean, which it happens and people make mistakes, but that's not all officers. So I think a lot of what the media is doing is kind of, I don't know, painting the officers in a negative light to kind of foster like a disconnect between the community and the police officers who are there to protect and serve, and that's what a majority of them do. So, and one of the things he said, because at one of the First Friday events, there were some officers there in uniform, and I asked him, like, "What did he think about the First Friday event, and what stood out to him, or what did he like the best about it?" And the thing that he said to me was, "I like that there were officers there, and they weren't there to, like, arrest anybody, or nothing bad happened, you know what I'm saying? They were just there, hanging out, interacting with the community." And I was like, "Wow," like, out of all the things that were going on, we had free food, we had a DJ playing good music, people playing chess, you know what I'm saying, it was a ton of other things going on, but he said that was one of the things that stood out to him, and it kind of touched me, it really did.

00:51:44Stephens: I get that it's hard to see the impact of work you're doing with youth and that they may, they often aren't aware of the impact that it's having, right?

00:51:54Flanigan: Yeah.

00:51:56Flanigan: But you mentioned your own mentor. Do you think--what is-- does that help keep you going when you think about your own relationship with a mentor and what that meant to you?

00:52:08Flanigan: Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. I speak about that very often, just from him even caring enough to keep being, like stand up on me and asking me questions about education and my interest. And even listening at times, that was a big part of it, too. 'Cause as adults, sometimes we always want to tell kids, "Oh, you should be doing this, or you shouldn't be doing that. Don't do that, don't do that, don't do that." But a big part of that is listening. A lot of these kids, they have a voice. It's just they don't have a platform sometimes to speak on it. And they have a lot of ideas and opinions about things. And yes, my mentor played a huge role in that and why I continue to do what I do. Because I tell people all the time, like somebody was there doing it for me. So it's only right that I step into that role and do it for somebody else who may need it, you know what I mean?

00:53:02Stephens: The homes and the people in the homes on the streets surrounding the East Athens Community Center have been changing pretty quickly. I know that's something that you're very much aware of. What have you seen happening in that neighborhood? This is sort of around Vine Street, Peter Street, I guess.

00:53:22Flanigan: I have noticed a lot of new houses and stuff being built, a lot of the older houses being torn down or bought up and remodeled, redeveloped and whatnot. But there have been a lot more students moving into the neighborhood. In the mid-90s, you wouldn't see any students there in the neighborhood or any white people at all, hardly for that matter. So that has been one major change that I have seen and that I've noticed. And yeah, I can see that the neighborhood is changing a lot, and mostly in regards to student housing.

00:54:05Stephens: What do you think about it? What do you think about what's happening there?

00:54:09Flanigan: I have mixed emotions about it, honestly. I mean, it's--I don't think it's good that some people are being forced out of their homes, a lot of the older population, we have an older and aging population in a lot of those neighborhoods. And the fact that those student housings that are being built, they're raising the property taxes or however that works, it's kind of forcing those people that are on like fixed incomes to not even be able to afford their taxes and stuff and to be able to keep their homes. Now, I did hear recently that one of those streets over there, the mayor kind of grandfathered into some kind of inclusion, it might be inclusionary zoning or just they gave them a tax break basically so the taxes don't go up whenever a new construction happens. So that was good, but that was just for one street or one little section of the East Athens community or neighborhoods. But there are a lot of African--Americans in that neighborhood and it's been traditionally an African--American neighborhood for as long as I can remember, but that's changing now. And I understand from the market's perspective and from when you go in and you're able to purchase a property for, a rundown house for like $30,000 or $40,000, somebody with the income that can come in and do that, like who are we to say that a specific person has to move into the house after they remodel it? But I've just been noticing that it's mostly been middle--class whites that have been able to afford those houses after they get remodeled. There are some programs though there that are in the neighborhood to help slow that process down. Habitat has been doing some stuff there. And, what's the other one, Athens Land Trust. They buy up homes in the East Athens community and try to, or they do make them affordable for low income families. But again, that's not guaranteed that African American family would be able to still move into the, back into those homes. But it kind of, it evens the playing field on some levels. So there are, there are good things going on with that, and not so good things. But like I said, it's tough, it's tough.

00:56:53Stephens: Neighborhoods do change, and that's not to say that all change is good by any means or that all change is bad.

00:57:02Flanigan: True.

00:57:03Stephens: You've been a member of a lot of neighborhoods that have changed a lot in Athens--

00:57:08Flanigan: --Yes.

00:57:09Stephens: --Over the course of just your lifetime, right?

00:57:11Stephens: Mhm.

00:57:13Stephens: What--how would you like to see them change moving forward? If they're going to change, what do you think, you know you're a part of these communities in a way, whether because of your history or your family or because you live there now.

00:57:29Flanigan: Right.

00:57:30Flanigan: What kind of change would you like to see?

00:57:33Flanigan: The kind of change that I would like to see,--uhm--would just be uhm--Wow, that's an interesting question, I never really thought about that.-- I mean, I would like to see like more of how communities were back when I was growing up, I guess you could say. Just a more of a sense of community where neighbors got together and interacted with one another and knew each other on a more personal level. I make it a point myself of getting to know my neighbors. If I have, like, if I'm getting ready to have a cookout or cook something on the grill, I make sure I let my neighbors know. I'm like, "I'm gonna be cooking out on the grill. If you wanna join me, that'll be totally fine." And sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. And even in one apartment complex I lived in, I started a community garden, and I invited my neighbors out to come out and help me get it started, and it was gonna be our garden for our apartment complex. And there were several community members that did come out and help out and and I got to know them through that process. So the community I would like to see was more and more like that, where we, where we build a community together and we invest in the community together and despite however many differences we may have on the outer surface, that we can all just get to know each other, live together, work together, and create the community that we want to see together, a safe environment for the next generations coming up.

00:59:24Stephens: It sounds like you were taught really as a kid how to be in a community, how to be a part of and build a community. It sounds to me like the work that you're doing now is really about that in a lot of ways.

00:59:40Flanigan: Yeah.

00:59:41Stephens: The Portrait Studio and the First Fridays, it sounds like, you're involved in that, in helping make that type of place. Do you think that's true?

00:59:53Flanigan: Uhm, (laughs) I don't know, being in the trenches, you see a different picture sometimes, but I can see that because I noticed that a lot of people, as of late, have been coming up to me like, "Oh, you're the guy that started the First Fridays," or "You do the youth art program at the community center." So, it seems like a lot of people are noticing some of the things that's happening, and I'm hearing about it, not from the kids or the people that I'm working with, but from people outside the community. And the fact that they know about it or they hear about it, it just kind of speaks volumes to me that I'm actually having an impact or that I'm doing something that people are taking notice of, and it seems to be that people like the work that I'm doing there. And it's meaningful even to them who are outside the community.

01:00:45Stephens: What's it meant to you?

01:00:48Flanigan: It's just been an amazing journey. Like, I never thought this type of work or having this type of impact, or, being within a community like that and my involvement, I never thought it would be as rewarding for me on a personal level. Just on the journey that I've been on myself, it's just like, it's so rewarding to be able to be in a position to be able to help others or to help. By helping others, I kind of help myself. It makes me feel good to be able to provide a free art program for kids and to inspire them, and to have a community event where I give away a ton of food, and people are able to eat, have a meal. That means a lot to me, it feels good, so.

01:01:37Stephens: Broderick, is there anything that I haven't brought up that you wanted to talk about?

01:01:44Flanigan: Not that I can think of. No.

01:01:50Flanigan: No. (laughs)

01:01:51Stephens: I just thought I wanted to give you a chance in case there's something you wanted to speak on that I hadn't really thought about. I think we'll conclude here, if that's okay with you. Yeah.

01:02:04Flanigan: Yeah.

01:02:04Stephens: Yeah. And I'll look forward to talking with you more. I really appreciate you taking time to come here and talk with me and talk about your own history here, and we'll have a chance to listen to this down the road and hear about sort of how the present becomes that. So, thank you.

01:02:27Flanigan: Okay, you're welcome, thank you. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END