00:00:00Alexander Stephens: All right, it is June 25th, 2014. We are in the Special Collections Library at the University of Georgia in Athens. My name is Alexander Stephens. And could you introduce yourself with your full name, please?
00:00:14Homer Wilson: My name is Homer Reese Wilson.
00:00:18Stephens: All right. Thank you, Mr. Wilson. It's great to have you here. Thanks for talking with us. We're going to be talking a little bit about the history of Mr. Wilson's life, as well as the history of Hot Corner in downtown Athens. So, to start with, I want to start from the beginning, I guess, for you, which is, could you tell me when and where you were born?
00:00:40Wilson: I was born in 1946, May the 22nd, in Carver, Georgia, Madison County, about 12 miles from here, in a little rural community. Sometime we call it the village, and I lived there until 1963 when we moved to Athens.
00:01:00Stephens: About how many people were in that that village community that you that you grew up in?
00:01:07Wilson: I would say three or four hundred peoples.
00:01:10Stephens: Okay, and what was what was that community like? Could you describe it a little bit, the place you grew up?
00:01:18Wilson: It's a rural agricultural town where we raised cotton in gardens. Things like that, chickens and raise your own hogs and your own cows and just a rural community.
00:01:39Stephens: And how about your family? How many--how many siblings did you have?
00:01:43Wilson: Well, my dad had a total of 15 children and so we were always was a big family and we are raised up down there. My son was born up here in Athens, Georgia. We enjoyed the country.
00:02:04Stephens: What are some of your favorite memories from growing up in the country?
00:02:09Wilson: Well growing up in the country, you know, we got a chance to run, we call it, barefeeted, you know, no shoes. And we swimmed in the creeks where we'd dam up our own water. And we had a chance to work in gardens and learn how to survive and raising your own meat, your own vegetables, and chores that we had to do around the house and learn the work part of life, how to be a workman of our trades and--that's where we started learning the trades, how to cut hair, right there in Madison County.
00:02:58Stephens: You started learning how to cut hair there?
00:03:00Wilson: Yes.
00:03:01Stephens: As a kid?
00:03:02Wilson: Yes, I started learning how to cut hair around--I would say around about '55.
00:03:11Stephens: And what about your parents' work? What kind of work did they do?
00:03:17Wilson: Well, at first, my daddy, he was a--concrete worker. He worked for the federal government, and he was pouring runways at Parris Islands in North Carolina--South Carolina, over in Orangeburg, those places where he poured runways. And from pouring runways, he started working on the railroad, where he retired from working on the railroad after 15 years. And then he started cutting hair right here in Athens, Georgia, and my mama was just a homemaker and later on she started working at a place where you dry clean clothes right here in Athens, Georgia, but she didn't work that long, she just wanted to get the feel of working and get a part of the social security system.
00:04:18Stephens: Okay. And you--I think I've seen that your father was a gospel singer as well.
00:04:25Wilson: Yes. My father, he loved to sing gospel and he had some groups that went around singing and he had a chance to sing with James Brown. That's probably one of the memories. James Brown was singing gospel at the time up in the core of Georgia. He had his group. And my dad had his group, and they used to go on different programs together, singing gospel. What was the name of your father's group?
00:04:53Stephens: What was the name of your father's group?
00:04:56Wilson: The name of the group was the--I think--I can't think of it right now, but it'll come to me.
00:05:03Stephens: Do you--were you at the performance that he did with James Brown's group?
00:05:07Wilson: I never get a chance to see him perform with James Brown, but we used to listen to him on the radio when he'd go to Augusta--on the radio station.
00:05:17Stephens: And he was on TV as well, right?
00:05:20Wilson: I never seen him on TV, but I did hear him on the radio.
00:05:23Stephens: Okay. So coming from Madison County, when y'all went into town, where did you go? Where was town for you?
00:05:32Wilson: Downtown Athens, right there where the paper place is now. That's where we used to come and park and then walk on up the steps. Just had steps to walk up then, and come downtown to the, what we called it--well it wasn't what we called it, what it was--the five and ten cent stores. You know, we got dollar stores now, but back then it was five and ten, McLellan's, Woolworth's, and we did have Belk's and Davises and Penny's and so on.
00:06:14Stephens: Kress's as well.
00:06:14Wilson: Oh yeah.
00:06:16Stephens: What are some of your memories from coming into town? What do you remember about that experience? Was it exciting? Was it important? Was it normal? What was that like?
00:06:30Wilson: Well, it was always exciting to leave the country--and come to what we call the city. So we just really enjoyed coming to Athens. And really, my dad would bring us a treat. We would come once a week cause he'd be home on the weekends. So every weekend, we got a chance to, at the time, we always had about eight people. So we'd load the car up with all the children and come to Athens.
00:06:59Stephens: Did you ever go to Hot Corner as a child?
00:07:01Wilson: Oh, yeah. We went to Hot Corner. That's some of my fond memories was going to Hot Corner. And that's where I got the idea--in my head, that I want to be like the businessmen on Hot Corner to see the men wearing suits and the lawyers, the doctors, and see all the professors and the drugstores and the restaurants and the good food and the cab companies, and it's just a treat to come to the city.
00:07:40Stephens: So at that point in the 1950s, right, this was in the 1950s when you were a young boy?
00:07:47Wilson: Yeah, the '50s. I came before then, I was born in '46, so I mean, I was a little boy, I can't remember then, but at that time I kind of can relate and remember some of the things that we start seeing.
00:08:03Stephens: And what did it, I guess, what do you remember specifically about Hot Corner, some of the businesses you went to, or just the general feeling of the place?
00:08:14Wilson: Well, I can--the feeling of it was a real city-like. I call it city. You know, when you leave a town with no red lights and one policeman, and come to a place where you see two or three policemen, and see people walking the street, and dressed up, and especially through the week, unless we're on the weekend. And my dad, most of the time, he would park right there where the Morton Theatre is right now. But at that time, they had a funeral home there, and they had the pool room. And they had the drugstore there. So, around the corner, they had another funeral home, and the curb market, and I think we call them flea market now, but curb market, and across the street, and Mr. Brown and Mr. Roebuck, and barber shop, and just seeing ladies all dressed up and looking good, and people getting haircuts, and it's just a sight to see people with shoes on, and it's just a good feeling to be among people that we call on the uprising in life.
00:09:40Stephens: And was it, were the people who were there, who owned the businesses and who were patrons there, were they primarily African-American, the people you saw there?
00:09:51Wilson: Yes, it was on Hot Corner, you know, downtown, you see a mixture, but right on Hot Corner, it's just all African-American.
00:10:02Stephens: Okay. So how about going back to Madison County? Where you were living, what schools did you attend while you were growing up there?
00:10:16Wilson: My first school that I went to was, I'm a member of the Waggoners Grove Baptist Church right there in Carver, Georgia, and that church has its own school. So that was the first school I went to was the Waggoners Grove school. And later on, Madison County started a school called Southside High School and elementary school combined, and that was the first school that I went to. I have to think about the year, but I know I was in about the fourth grade when I started in the real school. But our church school had a school right there at the church where we're located right now.
00:11:00Stephens: And did you graduate from Southside High School?
00:11:03Wilson: Yes, I graduated from there in 1964.
00:11:06Stephens: 1964?
00:11:07Wilson: Yes.
00:11:08Stephens: Okay. And then you went to college?
00:11:11Wilson: Well, I went to college, but what I did, I just didn't attend college. I went there to School of Forestry at Fort Valley State. I went to Fort Valley State School of Forestry School there at Camp John Hope, but it was on the campus of Fort Valley State.
00:11:26Stephens: How long were you there?
00:11:29Wilson: I was there about three months.
00:11:31Stephens: Okay. And what year about was that?
00:11:35Wilson: 1964.
00:11:35Stephens: Okay, so right after you graduated high school. And did you end up--did you end up doing any work related to forestry?
00:11:45Wilson: No, I did get my forestry certificate, but forestry was kind of, I don't like snakes. And so, you know, in forestry, you can't kill snakes. If you find a rattler or a Black snake, you know, you got to put them back in their habitat. And then we had to climb this tall forestry thing that you look out and see, you can see any forest fires and all this kind of thing. So, sometimes a snake might be up there. And, you know, I killed snakes so I found out that wouldn't be the ideal thing for me to be a part of. So I came on back to the start, cutting hair--back to cutting hair. I started cutting hair in 1960 anyway. So I already had a trade in cutting hair, so I came on back to the barbershop.
00:12:45Stephens: So you started cutting hair at home, you said about '55 you were learning how to cut hair. And then you started working at the barbershop in 1960. So you were just starting high school, I guess.
00:12:57Wilson: I was in the ninth grade, when I started cutting hair on the Corner.
00:13:00Stephens: How often were you cutting hair at that point?
00:13:03Wilson: Just on weekends.
00:13:04Stephens: Okay. So you would come into town on the weekends?
00:13:07Wilson: Yeah, come with my dad, you know, when he'd get off the railroad, and he's wait for me to get out of school, or either I would for him get off, and he'd bring me on to Athens with him.
00:13:17Stephens: So when did your father start working there at the barber shop?
00:13:22Wilson: He started working there around '55. Yeah, it was around '55 when he started working there.
00:13:27Stephens: And at that point, he was working for someone else?
00:13:31Wilson: On the railroad.
00:13:32Stephens: He was working on the railroad, but when he was--the barbershop was owned by someone else?
00:13:35Wilson: Oh yeah, Mr. Ed Gillam.
00:13:37Stephens: Ed Gillam?
00:13:38Wilson: Yeah, Mr. Ed Gillam had the barbershop at that time.
00:13:41Stephens: What was it called?
00:13:43Wilson: Gillam's Barbershop.
00:13:44Stephens: Okay.
00:13:45Wilson: But everybody else called it--all I ever know was Mr. Ed Gillam. You know, we had to put the handle on anybody older; we had to, you know, call him mister somebody. It was Ed Gillam's Barbershop, but we called it Mr. Ed Gillam's Barbershop.
00:13:59Stephens: Okay. That makes sense, you had to show respect.
00:14:03Wilson: Oh yeah.
00:14:05Stephens: So it was Ed Gillam's shop until--and then your father purchased it from him?
00:14:11Wilson: My father and Mr. Otis Haynes. Mr. Otis Haynes, they entered in a partnership after Mr. Ed Gillam died. I don't know the exact year that he died, but I think they started that business in the '60s, around--'62, '63, something like that. I can't--it might be in the '63, 'cause I know Mr. Otis Hayne bought a smack brand new '63 Impala Chevrolet. I can kind of remember that. But they had the barber shop then, but my focus was on that '63 Chevrolet that he bought. It was the prettiest thing I ever seen.
00:14:48Stephens: Do you remember what color it was?
00:14:50Wilson: Red.
00:14:52Stephens: So, it was about '63. You'd been working there since 1960.
00:14:56Wilson: Yes.
00:14:57Stephens: And I guess you were--you were still there when your father and Mr. Haynes went into business together.
00:15:05Wilson: Business partnership, yes.
00:15:06Stephens: Then you went off to school for a few months.
00:15:08Wilson: No, I went off of to school before then. That was in '60s. I mean--'64, yeah. '64, yeah.
00:15:13Stephens: Okay. Yeah, I was just trying to get the order of things right.
00:15:14Wilson: Oh, yeah. That was '64. It was 1960, '64. That's right.
00:15:18Stephens: Okay. And do know, do you have any idea what that building was before Mr. Gillam started the--Mr. Gillam's shop there? Do you have any idea what the building was--that's now your shop was used for before that?
00:15:32Wilson: Well, when Mr. Gillum was--the shop, there where we at right now, was a market. Mrs. Wade's mother, I think her name was Lizzie. Ms. Lizzie had a food market there that sold vegetables. And it looked kind of like a little store where we at right now. But we was next door where the restaurant was, that used to be two places. Next door was the barbershop, and that's where Mr. Ed Gillam, that's where we started out at.
00:16:07Stephens: Okay, in what became Wilson's Soul Food?
00:16:10Wilson: Yes, Wilson's Soul Food, and right next door was the Wilson's Soul Food, but they combined where the barbershop used to be and made one building. That's why it's big now. It's two buildings in one now.
00:16:27Stephens: Okay. And how did y'all end up starting the restaurant? Who started that?
00:16:34Wilson: My dad started the restaurant. My dad and mom.
00:16:38Stephens: And what was your mother's role in the businesses of the family?
00:16:43Wilson: In the restaurant business?
00:16:45Stephens: Yeah.
00:16:45Wilson: She was the main chef.
00:16:48Stephens: Okay.
00:16:48Wilson: Yeah. She and my sister. And really my dad and my sister. And all of us can cook. One thing about--all my sisters and brothers can cook. My mom and dad taught us all how to cook.
00:17:05Stephens: So starting that business was sort of natural for y'all?
00:17:07Wilson: Yeah, really. Any of us could cook. Any of us, four course meal.
00:17:15Stephens: Okay, well, going back to 1960 when you started working at the shop, still in high school, what was going on in Athens at that time? What do you remember about Athens? Sort of the what was happening here at that at that point?
00:17:33Wilson: Well, we was--worked. And at that time, you know, they start the movement--segregation, marching in the street and--our place was the place where My dad and Mr. Otis, and when they take a break they will always have a lemonade lunch for them to come and take a break and go back downtown to march in the stores, so we always worked in the background to fix food for them and get them some refreshments.
00:18:14Stephens: What do you remember about the demonstrators, what was your impression of them?
00:18:21Wilson: Well you know my--dad would not let me go down there at that time I had a--I guess a anger management, so if I had went down I would got everybody hurt because I--my temper was high and I didn't take anything. So, my dad wouldn't let me go down there to be a part of, so that's why I had to work in the background.
00:18:51Stephens: So you would have found it difficult to participate in a nonviolent demonstration.
00:18:56Wilson: Yeah. Because you know if you know--at that time I, I'm better now, but at that time I couldn't take it I would have got some people hurt.
00:19:07Stephens: So y'all were kind of in the background but how did you feel about what the protesters were doing?
00:19:12Wilson: I really felt good about it that the movement that it was making and I really wanted to still go but my dad just wouldn't let me. I wanted to really be a part of that, but I was a part of it in another sense and in another way but I really wanted to march in the street, but the way I wanted to march was--wouldn't have been--it wouldn't have been the nonviolent movement.
00:19:41Stephens: Where were the some of the places that they were sitting in?
00:19:49Wilson: All the places downtown. There was a march and the Kress's and the Woolworth's and the Davis's and the Penny's and all those stores they were sitting in all of them.
00:20:04Stephens: And what did your father think about what the protesters were doing? Did he consider participating or did your mother consider participating in the movement directly?
00:20:18Wilson: Yeah--my father helped support it, the movement, you know, monetary and the things that he did--he didn't charge one dime. He used to feed everybody every day. So he supported that way in the movement, like other business was supporting that way. They would fix things up, and they was always great supporters of the movement for betterment of their children and the community.
00:20:51Stephens: Did y'all worry at all about any backlash from people who were in opposition to the movement?
00:20:58Wilson: Yeah. My dad often talked about that in the barber shop, the ministers, Reverend Thomas, Reverend Hall. They always would come to the shop and talk about the things you do when you in the presence of whites, the things you don't do when you're in the presence of the policeman. So they've always taught us how to survive in those kind of relationships. What to say, what not to say. And sometimes you have to give up your right for somebody to ruin in order to survive. So they taught us how to survive in those extreme times.
00:21:35Stephens: Do you remember any threats from the Klan or anybody else towards people who were involved in the movement?
00:21:45Wilson: They talked about that a lot in the shop, there's all kind of threats and all kind of throwing things that catch on fire and coming to people's houses with the hoodwinks on, so all that was talked about.
00:22:04Stephens: So those things were happening or people were afraid that they were happening?
00:22:08Wilson: Oh, they was happening. Yeah, they happening right here in Clarke County, Madison County, Oconee County, all surrounding here. They actually happened.
00:22:18Stephens: Do you remember any specific cases of that?
00:22:22Wilson: I never was involved with it, but I've seen it. I know going to Monroe, I seen right beside the road, I think it's a church down there--there used to be a jubilee with the church. He used to sit out on the side of the road with the hoodwinks on, and we could see it with our own eyes. I seen it with my own eyes.
00:22:46Stephens: The Klan, with the hoods.
00:22:48Wilson: Yes. That's on Highway, that's 78.
00:22:52Stephens: 78, down in Monroe.
00:22:54Wilson: Yeah, going to Monroe. Right on the right-hand side. Every time I go out there, I look at that spot now.
00:23:01Christian Lopez: What kinds of things did--your father and others in the barbershop advise you to do to avoid, you know, those situations you were speaking of. You know, how to behave around police officers. What were those things that they, what kinds of behaviors were those that they said that you needed to do?
00:23:26Wilson: Well, you know, my dad would say if you are even in presence of whites that, you know, just was, you know, the word we used back then was mean and low-down. And sometimes you just had to take what they say, and he called it "eat it." And I saw that to get yourself out from under the phrase they use, "it's like having your hand in a lion's mouth." You can't jerk it out, you got to ease it out. And what you're trying to do is save your life, get away. You might have your sister with you. You might have your brother with you. But sometimes you just got to ease your way out from under the things they say and take it. And the same way, you know, back then, you know, you never got old. You was a boy. He was my daddy. He used to call him my uncle. But they took that in order to--survive, at that time, the aggressiveness that they had towards Blacks.
00:24:46Stephens: Did you ever have any encounters where you had to take that advice?
00:24:49Wilson: Oh, yeah. Yeah, you know, in Madison County, you go to the store, you walk in, and you had to sit there and wait till they--wait on everybody else. Somebody else, another white come in, they wait on them. And then you just have to sit and wait until your time and finally get to you. And you just tell them what you want. And certain person walk in, you might have to wait for a few more minutes. So that kind of thing, we had to bear with it.
00:25:23Stephens: And you said you really were trying to save your life. I mean, that was the phrase you used, that you were, there was a real danger there.
00:25:33Wilson: Yeah, if you speak the wrong word, not only, not your life, you know, once I said something to one, and my mom told me, "I endangered the whole family's life" by speaking out against them--someone said something to me once at the store, and I told my mom. And she told my dad, "Don't do that, 'cause I endanger the whole family." At that time, they'd come set the house on fire.
00:26:08Stephens: Do you remember what you said or what was said to you?
00:26:11Wilson: Well, I went to the store to get some oranges and some apples and Brazil nuts--but back then you couldn't say it like that. So I asked for the oranges, and--I asked for the apples, and then I asked for Brazil nuts, and he knew who I was, so he told me, "Aren't you M.C. Wilson's son?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Well, don't come here trying to change nothing." So I had to change, instead of saying Brazil nuts, I had to say, "Nigger toes." That was the way to say it was Brazil nuts, and that just really tore me down, and--and I told him, you know, that-- "I'll be back." And when I said the wrong thing, I shouldn't have said that. I told my mom. So my daddy went down there and talked to him. And so, you know, I just couldn't say things like that, but I did say it.
00:27:18Stephens: Thank you for sharing that story. And--I guess getting back to Hot Corner, at that point in time, what was the vibe on Hot Corner then? Obviously, there was a lot of tumultuous sort of activity going on in Athens, but what was the vibe on Hot Corner specifically in the early 1960s?
00:27:45Wilson: Can I take a break? Yeah, I need to take a break. I don't like to tell that story.
00:27:57Stephens: Yeah. Yeah, I--I--I'm sorry for, for asking you to tell it. I--I also thought that it's really important for people to know what sorts of things happened. So that's the reason I was asking. But if you need to take a minute, if you want to, if you want to step out--
00:28:15Wilson: No, I'm alright, I just need to calm down a minute.
00:28:19Stephens: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, I--I--I knew that would be hard. I wasn't really sure where to--where to go after that.
00:28:33Wilson: I'm all right. I'm better now. I used to couldn't take it at all.
00:28:39Stephens: Yeah. I really--I really appreciate you sharing that. And, uh, you know, if--you feel like if--I don't--I don't want to push you to say anything you don't want to say. So, um, you know, don't--don't let--don't let me do it. You know, if you--if you don't want to talk about something, you can tell me that, okay?
00:29:01Wilson: Well, things like that need to be, people need to know. It's actually happened, you know, but let's get back to Hot Corner.
00:29:09Stephens: Okay, all right. Yeah, we can--we can absolutely.
00:29:13Wilson: All right.
00:29:14Stephens: Are we good? Okay.
00:29:20Wilson: I'm alright. Now, what you said about Hot Corner?
00:29:21Stephens: So, there was a lot going on in Athens.
00:29:24Wilson: Yeah.
00:29:25Stephens: Uh, demonstrations. The university was being, uh, integrated.
00:29:29Wilson: Yeah.
00:29:30Stephens: Hamilton Holmes and Charlayne Hunter were there.
00:29:32Wilson: Yeah.
00:29:32Stephens: What did Hot Corner feel like at that point? What was the vibe?
00:29:39Wilson: It was very aggressive. You know, when you see, uh--I got to tell you, the walk down there, once you see the TV, the cameras. State troopers riding through. It was a different type of movement that was happening that we have never seen before at the time we're talking about when they start integrating the school system. So we was at another peak in our life that we had never seen and people was--some was afraid and some was happy. So it was a great--I was happy at the time. I was glad to see it and the movement happening.
00:30:37Stephens: You said that at that point in the in the early '60s Hot Corner was becoming a little bit more diverse. It was it was changing a little bit. Is that right? Was it was it was it still predominantly Black-owned businesses or were there other folks starting to come in--in the early 60s?
00:31:01Wilson: Yes. You know, the--the--that was some other businesses kind of start coming around the suburban of it. I can't think the name of that grocery store on the end down there and uh A&P had a grocery store right back at the post office so things began to move up building nice the stores for us to go buy groceries in and, so is that that movement start beginning move down on that end.
00:31:37Stephens: When would you say Hot Corner was at its peak?
00:31:44Wilson: Uh--Hot Corner, I don't know about the people, but it had always been a place where the minority wanted to come. You know, it was the Mecca for Northeast Georgia, and every Black wanted to have a business on Hot Corner. You know, that's the way all the--we call it the professionals would come to Hot Corner and the motels and was there and the drugstores and the lawyers and the doctors. So when it peaked out--I just don't know when it peaked, but I know everybody said that's the place to make money. So that's where they wanted to be.
00:32:50Stephens: So what did it mean to you then, knowing how important Hot Corner was for all of Northeast Georgia, what did it mean to you for your father to be the owner of the shop there?
00:33:04Wilson: It really felt good to me, you know, because at the time he wanted to own--a lot, everything don't belong to Black at one time. They own it all. So I felt good but it wasn't, I think I feel like, wish that some of the other ones had held on to what they had and just a few of us now that own property down there but we didn't just zero in on my dad owning the building, we zeroed in on how to--to improve the business, how to start doing from a barbershop to doing the latest improvement of the business, how to fix the latest means, our job rise and do the whole work become professionals at your business of hair at that time.
00:34:12Stephens: Could you say the full name of the business? The full name of the shop?
00:34:19Wilson: Wilson's Styling Shop.
00:34:21Stephens: And so it became--and I apologize for calling it a barber shop, because it really is more than just men's hair, right? It's also women's hair.
00:34:29Wilson: It's a styling shop, yeah. It started out as a barber, but it still was named Wilson's Styling Shop. But when Dad and Mr. Otis Haynes, it was Wilson Haynes' Barber Shop. But when my daddy brought it straight out for himself, they moved it to Styling Shop. Because we gonna start doing everybody hair.
00:34:48Stephens: And around when was that, that he bought it outright?
00:34:54Wilson: It was around '68, '67, '68, something like that.
00:35:01Stephens: And what kind of things did y'all do to make it, as you said, more professional or to sort of expand the business? Did y'all bring in new people? Or to work there to do women's hair, or were there other things that you did to grow the business?
00:35:17Wilson: Well, my dad had so many kids, we started--so he sent my sister to Apex Beauty College in Atlanta to learn how to fix ladies' hair. And we started taking courses at Brown's Barber College in Atlanta to bring our skill up. So we all started going to a workshop for the Bronner Brothers and started competing on a national level. We had a chance to win a national award from Bronner Brothers, the Family of the Year Award for hair care on a national level. So he started that movement, us competing.
00:36:07Stephens: Okay. Was there any competition with any of the other barbershops in town?
00:36:14Wilson: They competed on a national level also, yes.
00:36:17Stephens: But I mean, did y'all feel competition for customers at all?
00:36:21Wilson: No, no. We--They always taught--my dad would tell us, if you--when Ram Barbershop was in the Morton Theater, so when they came over here on the Corner below us, and people said, "Well, they're gonna hurt your business." Daddy said, "No, they won't hurt our business. They're gonna help our business." H said, "If they get filled up, their customers are gonna come up here. If we get filled up, our customers are gonna come down." So it helps the business when you've got competition.
00:36:56Stephens: Could you talk about your other neighbors there on the block? What other shops were there in the '60s or '70s?
00:37:04Wilson: The barbershops?
00:37:06Stephens: Just all the businesses there.
00:37:09Wilson: Oh, I gotta listing all of the businesses--
00:37:13Stephens: Oh, not all the ones on Hot Corner, but just the ones next to you on Hull Street.
00:37:18Wilson: Okay, uh, next to us, you know, the Manhattan; Miss Wade was there. That was, uh, where I ate the most at, Mrs. Wade. And right below Mrs. Wade, then the Browns came over there. And right above them was Mr. Otis Haynes, and--
00:37:44Stephens: Right above?
00:37:46Wilson: Where, where Wilson's Soul Food is, that was the Otis Hayne's Cafe. He had it before we did. The same person my dad's in partnership with, he had a cafe up there too.
00:37:59Stephens: Okay.
00:37:59Wilson: Then that's right around us, right there.
00:38:02Stephens: Right.
00:38:03Wilson: Then right back of us was the liquor store, and the liquor store back of us, right behind us there. Yeah.
00:38:11Stephens: And so were you all close with the other business owners on that block?
00:38:15Wilson: Oh, yeah. All the businesses was close. The barbershop, Mr. Roebuck's.
00:38:22Stephens: And what did Mr. Roebuck own?
00:38:25Wilson: His barbershop was in the Morton Theater. The Morton Theater had a lot of business in it. It had the mutual funeral home. You had Roebuck's barbershop. You had the drugstore. You had Ms. Hines. She was the first Black dentist, female for the state of Georgia over there. And the doctor was over there in the Morton Theater building and the pool room. And right next to it was Mack and Payne funeral home. And that was Jack Lumpkin our Chief of Police. That was their funeral home.
00:39:10Stephens: Their family?
00:39:11Wilson: Yeah.
00:39:11Stephens: Okay.
00:39:12Wilson: Yeah.
00:39:13Stephens: Okay. So, you said that you, I think you said you wished that some of those businesses would have held on longer. When did things start to change? When did some of those business owners start to sell the places that they had had on Hot Corner?
00:39:35Wilson: Well, you know, some--their parent passed away and they moved, went to, you know, the movements, Detroit, Chicago, New York, to big cities to, to, you know, make more money. And then some that moved to shopping centers, you know, like a lot of business downtown, they went to the mall, the mall started drawing people in there. And my dad always had a theory. He said that he liked, my dad was a downtown man, he loved downtown. And he, being the oldest boy, he told it to me that it's better to look at a building from the outside than to be in a mall and look at a building from the inside. So that always put in my head. So I always have liked downtown too. So, you know, something he told me, I just never got out of it. So I just like downtown. You know, I have a brother now, they have a mall. Well, we have a shopping center on Hawthorne, with the dollar store and all that.
00:41:08Stephens: The plaza.
00:41:09Wilson: Yeah.
00:41:09Stephens: Wilson's Plaza
00:41:10Wilson: Yeah. So, you know, he didn't come out under that umbrella that I came in under, the older people. So I wanted to stay downtown.
00:41:20Stephens: Did anybody feel any pressure to move to the mall, or pressure to move out of downtown? Or was it always just people felt like it was a better opportunity?
00:41:30Wilson: Better opportunity. They thought, you know. The new ideas and going in the mall, big air-conditioned place, people can walk around, it won't rain on you. They had the theories to get you in there, you know, that movement, and it sounded good. But my dad said, "Son, let's stay downtown." I said, "Okay, I like downtown." And I'm glad we did.
00:41:57Stephens: Why are you glad?
00:41:59Wilson: Because everybody want to come back downtown now.
00:42:03Stephens: It's true.
00:42:04Wilson: Yeah. Everybody want to come back. He always did say, "Just hold on to your clothes. Don't get fat. Keep them. That style coming back again." So everybody want to get back downtown. History repeats itself.
00:42:27Stephens: Your father sounds like a wise man.
00:42:29Wilson: He was really wise. I learned a lot of stuff from him. He was a very wise man.
00:42:37Stephens: Do you remember the urban renewal period in the '60s, '70s?
00:42:43Wilson: What do you mean?
00:42:43Stephens: Urban renewal when they redeveloped--a lot of homes were demolished and they redeveloped some neighborhoods in Athens, some of them close to downtown, like the Bottom. Do you remember that time?
00:42:55Wilson: Yeah. I remember when--that was called urban renewal?
00:43:01Stephens: Yes.
00:43:01Wilson: Yeah, I remember that when they started changing things. I think they was refixing their homes or remodeling. I remember some of that, yeah.
00:43:16Stephens: Do you remember talk about that at the at the styling shop?
00:43:21Wilson: Yeah.
00:43:21Stephens: Were people talking about it?
00:43:22Wilson: Yeah, they talked about everything at the barbershop, you know. The church really was the mecca of getting out information, and dad, our dad, he always cut a lot of pastors and Mr. Otis' hair. And really, they influenced us to where to vote. On Sunday morning, they would tell people how they were going to vote. They turned the election around in one Sunday (snaps his fingers). It was very interesting that--some of the influence men in this town would stop by the shop and talk to my dad, talk to the minister. He said, "We need y'all support on this issue," and they had met at the country club, and they had come out to the shop and said, "This is what we need y'all to do." And they worked together on different movements.
00:44:40Stephens: These were white politicians?
00:44:42Wilson: Yeah.
00:44:43Stephens: Who would come by?
00:44:43Wilson: Oh, yeah.
00:44:44Stephens: So a lot of business got done at the shop.
00:44:46Wilson: Oh, yeah. That was some things we have in the community. They didn't quite know what was going on, they would come to the shops, source of information, we hear it all at the barbershop.
00:45:03Stephens: So you knew things before they were even going to happen?
00:45:06Wilson: We knew it, and after they happened, we just about know what happened, who did it, how it happened, you know, people just--it's the barbershop.
00:45:22Lopez: Mr. Wilson, you mentioned that your father knew Senator Russell. Did he come to the shop? Or how did your dad know Senator Russell?
00:45:36Wilson: It was a--man, he used to sing. He used to sing in a quartet group. And they had a--I guess a barbecue or something. There in Winder. And my dad and the group went up there and sung. It's an outdoor event. And, you know, when you're campaigning, you've got to bring in some people to get all the votes. So my dad and them went up there and sung. I can't think of this man's name in Winder. I got it wrote down somewhere, but I just can't remember his name. And that's how my dad got a chance to meet Mr. Russell. And then later on-- there's another person, was it a son? Did he have a son?
00:46:31Lopez: No.
00:46:32Wilson: Daughter?
00:46:33Lopez: No, he didn't marry.
00:46:34Wilson: He didn't marry? Somebody knew him, would come down to the shop once a day, would ask daddy to get the people to vote for him. But he never come there in person himself. But my dad, if he needed-- anything, he could always go to--I can't think of this man's name, over there in Winder, he worked with the agriculture department too. He was a Black fellow. But my dad used to get some things done through him. But that's how he met him, by singing with the quartet group. They went up there and sang at one of his outdoor events. I didn't go. I wish I had, but I know they—one thing I remember, they had good barbeque, and my dad and them ate good, and one of the men that got him there, that was cooking the barbeque, he stayed right there. Bogart or Statham, in that area, but all that was in the Winder area.
00:47:48Stephens: Okay. So just to clarify, you moved in, your family moved from Colbert into Athens in the '60s?
00:47:58Wilson: 1963. My mother died in '62. My mother, then my dad remarried again, but my mother died in 1962, and the next year my dad moved in to Brooklyn in '63.
00:48:14Stephens: Okay. Where is that in Athens exactly?
00:48:19Wilson: Right off of Hawthorne.
00:48:20Stephens: Okay. Okay, so you lived there for a long time?
00:48:24Wilson: Yeah, I lived there until 1967, I think.
00:48:30Stephens: Okay. So over the course of the next years, you said, you know, some people were moving out of Hot Corner, some of the businesses were moving out, there were some changes in Athens. How do you think things changed in the communities that you were a part of at that time, either the business community? Or your neighborhood, how were you seeing things starting to change maybe in the 70s and 80s?
00:49:00Wilson: Well, (coughs) excuse me. The business was, they started building nicer buildings, you know, they funeral homes, barber shops, and so they started--they wanted to expand, have a place to park, and so on. They bought other area spots and moved out. And they still exist. They just moved out and expand, you know, there's just so much you can do downtown. So they wanted to make a building, a larger place, so they moved out in other areas.
00:49:44Stephens: What do you feel like has stayed the same at Hot Corner throughout the years? What's always been there for you? Not physical structures, but just the feeling, what's stayed the same there?
00:49:58Wilson: The vibe, the vibe that they instilled in me, the Browns, the Wades, I guess it would be Mrs. Wade, she always said that Hot Corner is a very sensitive area, and it's based on our spirit that survives, that keeps that place surviving. And that's why we always keep our motto, "Feeling the spirit, reliving the spirit, experiencing the spirit." It's a spirit that makes people's lives better. Relive the truth of business and survivor of Blacks on her corner. Every time I go in the morning, I can just feel that vibe. That spirit, that happened. They got a story that they can tell, that happened on Hot Corner. It just had to be something supernatural that happened that people just don't understand.
00:51:25Stephens: So Ms. Wade was the person, her family owned Manhattan, right?
00:51:30Wilson: Manhattan, yeah.
00:51:30Stephens: She was the person who sort of instilled that in younger folks coming up.
00:51:35Wilson: Younger people, older heads, I don't know where she got it from.do with that. Oh, all about it, yeah, about faith. Um, so that spirit's still there. Oh, it's still there. You know, I wish I had asked more questions at that time, but I was just so glad to get information. But, uh, she always said that that's the spirit. And all them was, uh, church people, so, uh, they went to church and they believe in the existence of a supreme being.
00:52:00Stephens: So faith has something to do with that.
00:52:02Wilson: Oh, all about it, yeah, about faith.
00:52:06Stephens: Um, so that spirit's still there.
00:52:10Wilson: Oh, it's still there. Oh, I still feel that any time I can feel it. That's give you the uplift, the Hot Corner celebration, that's why we do that to keep the spirit alive.
00:52:25Stephens: Yeah, I want to talk more about that in just a minute, but the the physical space has changed, right, especially in recent years. You recently sold the, did you sell just the business or did you sell the building that is--that was Wilson's soul food. Do you still own that building?
00:52:44Wilson: Yeah, we still own it.
00:52:45Stephens: So you lease it to the World Famous?
00:52:47Wilson: Yes.
00:52:48Stephens: Okay. Was that a difficult decision to sell the soul food restaurant?
00:52:55Wilson: No, we didn't sell it. We leased it. We still own it. We would never sell anything.
00:53:02Stephens: But closing the business, was closing the business hard for you to do?
00:53:06Wilson: Yes, it was. It's been there for about 25 years. We, uh, really, were burnt out. That was the truth of it. The restaurant business calls for a lot of work. It's never, you never finish. You're prepping for the next day. You're getting ready for the people. You've got to stay up on your feet. Your paperwork, it's just never-ending. I always leave the barbershop, go over there and do some stuff. We got bought out in the food business. One day we might go back, but it'd be with a new swing because we see what we could have done to survive. But right now we're enjoying the rest.
00:54:08Stephens: So you have World Famous on one side, Manhattan's on the other side. I understand the Wades still own it but they lease it. It's not run by the Wades anymore. And then Little King's on the corner. So Hot Corner, the people who come to Hot Corner now I would imagine look pretty different from the people who used to come there.
00:54:30Wilson: Oh yeah, it's look different, but we enjoy it. We all get along real well and good neighbors, Joey Tatum's a good neighbor and David and them, good neighbors. We couldn't have rented to better neighbors so we just--they kind of--they don't, you know--I tell people they don't, they probably don't know it, but they've been around so long till the spirit done got in them; they act like us (laughs). So we love it.
00:55:15Stephens: So that spirit can transfer.
00:55:17Wilson: Oh, yes, you know, they got me to where I really believe that now. I really actually believe what Mrs. Wade said, it's just different when you come on the Corner. You might not know it, but it's different.
00:55:37Stephens: You said that you would never sell the building, and I know the Wade family still owns the building that Manhattan's in. Why would y'all--why haven't y'all sold the structures themselves?
00:55:49Wilson: Well, (clears throat) excuse me again, my dad told me, he says, "Son, the only thing that you--can do is your watch," he said. "My watch was not to sell it." He said--he and I, we was in Mason together. We traveled together. Me and my dad traveled more than all the other sisters and brothers because we just, we had a time just, it was just remarkable, you know. He liked for me to go with him, so I traveled all over the country with my dad. So we talked about everything. And he told me, "Now son, on, I know you're not going to sell it. So all you got to do is your watch." He said, "After your watch, anything can happen." He said, "You can sell it, but don't let it be on your watch." So it's on my watch now. And I wouldn't agree to sell it on my watch.
00:56:58Stephens: What's the significance of owning--owning space there for you? What does it mean to you to own that space?
00:57:09Wilson: Well, you know, that don't really--generates me, my being a part of the owners. What generates me is service. I like to be able to serve people. And--regardless whether you own it or not, there's still some rules and regulations you--like my dad said, is you don't really, really never own anything, because if you don't pay the taxes, they'll take it. So you have it in your possession, but it's not just owning it. It's a price to keep it up to owning it.
00:57:59Stephens: So some of the folks who are still on Hot Corner, including your father and yourself, started the Hot Corner Foundation. When was that?
00:58:13Wilson: You mean the Hot Corner Association.
00:58:16Stephens: I'm sorry, the Hot Corner Association.
00:58:18Wilson: Yeah, we started that--fourteen years ago.
00:58:24Stephens: In 2000.
00:58:25Wilson: Yeah, 2000.
00:58:26Stephens: What were your motivations for starting the association?
00:58:31Wilson: We started that so people can remember, keep in memory, that there was a lot of business down there. We wanted to have a place where we can have workshops. We wanted to recruit more minority men to come back downtown and then once a year have a big celebration. And to showcase--when we had a memorial of all the businesses and we called the roll call and they left so people know that this area was the Mecca of Black minority business.
00:59:20Stephens: What are your hopes for, I guess, what you can do or what the association can do to promote? Are you trying to promote Black owned businesses in the downtown? Is that part of your goal?
00:59:34Wilson: Yes, we are. We are constantly trying to recruit minorities to come downtown and open up businesses. And, you know, if not where we are, it's anywhere, downtown. So we always go to, I'm familiar with some people in Atlanta that we talk to, that. That was, might have an interest in coming downtown Athens, and opening up a business.
01:00:06Stephens: And why particularly downtown? Why is that important?
01:00:10Wilson: It's just a part of the instill that's within us to bring back the feeling of having minority owned businesses downtown. You probably won't be able to buy it now, but it's just a part of that to have a business down there and some of the--I'd like to see, you know, some more food, business, shops to come back downtown to promote business.
01:00:45Stephens: Do you feel like the shops that are downtown now serve Black communities in the way that you are talking about as far as the importance of service and the importance of-- Having a spirit, a particular spirit, do you feel like places downtown are currently serving Black communities in Athens?
01:01:03Wilson: Oh, yeah, because when I walk down, I go downtown and walk just to look. And so there's still some minority-owned business down there that draws downtown. And, you know, the nightlife is in full bloom downtown for a minority. You know, not owning, but participating, but we do have some Black bars downtown that are doing well.
01:01:36Stephens: What are your hopes or aspirations for your shop and for Hot Corner in the future?
01:01:46Wilson: In the future, it's what we're doing right now, you know, media--To get exposed, we would like to one day do a film on our Corner. We have a drawing up that we would like to have a walk of fame, blocks, and every year put in a business downtown. We had a kind of little semi-drawing up of how we would like for it to look. So we got some things that we would like to have downtown so people always know that it was there.
01:02:33Stephens: In an ideal world, what would Hot Corner look like in the next ten years? What would it look like there?
01:02:40Wilson: In whose world?
01:02:41Stephens: In your ideal world.
01:02:44Wilson: Well, in my real ideal world, it would be a business, but there would be a park, a place where you could sit out there on Washington Street. At one time, I had envisioned being all the way to where the Classic Center is, a walkway where you could see the Classic Center, but all the way to beyond the Classic Center and an active theater where you can have big concerts on the river. And, uh, you know, and Hot Corner will be a part of it.
01:03:25Stephens: Okay. Is there anything that I haven't asked you that I should have, or anything that you particularly want to talk about that I haven't brought up?
01:03:37Wilson: Uh, you know, you said something a few minutes ago that we have kind of talked about, but we have never gotten with, uh, and--That is, um, the uses that we can use that right here is in our reach, and we got to know how to use it, and that's just the University of Georgia. Uh, um, we would like to have a foundation set up, and we have use--setting the example, and have money come in to help preserve, uh--some business at the time, whether it because a lack of funds, and the foundation can help you to keep your business thriving in the future. And--I was just amazed when I walked in here [to Russell Library Oral History Recording Studio] to see all this stuff that you have here, that we can come in and touch a button and it'll pull up. We talked about that once--having a drawing of an old--an old-time telephone booth, and you walk in and hit a button, and it'll show you a picture of Hot Corner, show you what it used to be, how it used to be, with technology, what y'all got here. We have already talked about that, but we had never tapped into the resources, and that's why, when you asked me about it, all that came to my mind, that we can take some resources--that's already available, and use it to help promote Hot Corner.
01:05:27Stephens: Okay. All right. Well, Mr. Wilson, thank you so much for taking time to speak with us today. It was really good to have a chance to sit down and talk with you more. We really appreciate it.
01:05:39Wilson: Well, let me thank you all, too, for taking the time. We really, really appreciate what you're doing, and we hope that something that we said can be a help. Some of the things I've seen, they can be a help to us, because I really see some things that I really like here, and I hope that this won't be the last time we talk about it and we can get some things. And we are not--we don't know as much as we should know, but any way you can help us, we really appreciate you would help us to make this a working event and working it, so it can be seen everywhere.
01:06:26Stephens: I look forward to talking more.
01:06:28Wilson: Yeah. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END
