Partial Transcript: We're talking with Mr. J. Ralph Beaird, Dean of the University of Georgia Law School.
Segment Synopsis: Ralph Beaird, dean of the University of Georgia (UGA) Law School in the 1980s, talks about how Dean Rusk became a professor of international law at UGA. He says that while most people were pleased when Dean Rusk joined the faculty, a few people were concerned that Rusk did not have a law degree.
Keywords: Boalt Hall; International Harvester; Lindsey Cowen; Lyndon Johnson; Samuel Sibley; Secretary of State; University of California--Berkeley; University of Texas
Partial Transcript: I remember after Dean joined the faculty here, he was invited to speak to one of the local civic clubs.
Segment Synopsis: Beaird discusses the Law Day Speech given by Dean Rusk in 1968 in the UGA Fine Arts building, which led him to be hired as an international law professor. Beaird further discusses some of the people on the Board of Regents who opposed Dean Rusk's appointment, including Roy Harris.
Keywords: Bobby Kennedy; Fred Davidson; George Marshall; Harry Truman; Lindsey Cowen; Milner Ball; SEATO; election day
Partial Transcript: Dean Beaird, my dad was a professor, you were the dean of the law school. What kind of reputation did he have here on the faculty and with the students as a teacher of international law?
Segment Synopsis: Beaird talks about Dean Rusk's reputation as a professor of international law and says that he was admired by his students.
Keywords: Georgia Journal of International and Comparative Law; Grading; Joseph De Gaulle; Krishna Menon
Partial Transcript: Go ahead and repeat that.
Segment Synopsis: Beaird discusses Dean Rusk's habit of donating any honoraria checks he received to the UGA Law School to help black students or students who wanted to attend the Russell Seminar on International Law.
Keywords: Carol Brown; Community Services Bureau; Dean and Virgina Rusk fund; George Ball; John Sibley; Louis Sohn
Partial Transcript: Dean Beaird, what was the genesis of the Dean Rusk Center? Where did that idea come from? What role did my father play in all that and how did this come about?
Segment Synopsis: Beaird discuses the establishment of the Dean Rusk International Law Center at the University of Georgia Law School and talks about Dean Rusk's reaction to it.
Keywords: George Busbee; Tulane University
Partial Transcript: Given my dad's former position, was he able to help bring some former government leaders to the university?
Segment Synopsis: Beaird talks about how Dean Rusk was able to bring former government leaders to speak at the University of Georgia. He also recalls when Jimmy Carter and Ted Kennedy were speakers for the Law Day Ceremony in 1974.
Keywords: Charlie Curbow; Cyrus Vance; Earl Warren; George Bald; Georgia Supreme Court; Henry Kissinger; Hunter Thompson; Jack Carter; Lady Bird Johnson; Law School Association; Rolling Stone
Partial Transcript: Dean Beaird, you said he spent a lot of time on the road making speeches, performed a good deal of public service. Just how diversified an audience did he try to reach?
Segment Synopsis: Beaird discusses the impact that Dean Rusk had at UGA. He says that Dean Rusk was invited to speak to different groups across the country and was also the adviser to the Black American Law Students Association.
Keywords: Dean Rusk International Law Center; First Methodist Church; War College at Maxwell Air Force Base
RICHARD RUSK: We're talking with Mr. J. Ralph Beaird, Dean of the [Universityof] Georgia Law School. That's B-E-A-I-R-D. This is April 10, 1987. Rich Rusk doing the interviewing, and we're talking about Dean Beaird's relationship and observations about Dean Rusk.
[break in recording]
RICHARD RUSK: Dean Beaird, how did you first come to know my father?
BEAIRD: Well, I guess I first came to know him when he accepted an appointmentas the Samuel Sibley Professor here at Georgia. [Of] course I knew of him when I was in government and he was Secretary of State, but our paths never crossed. I was with the Associates List of the Labor Department and Associate General Council of the National Labor Relations Board at the time.
[break in recording]
RICHARD RUSK: Go ahead, hang on. Testing, one, two, three, four, five--Go ahead00:01:00and start from the beginning. Dean Beaird, how did you first come to know my father Dean Rusk?
BEAIRD: Well I knew of him when we were both in government. [Telephone Rings,Stop Tape, Start Tape] Want me to go ahead?
RICHARD RUSK: Yeah, why don't you just pick up the thread--
BEAIRD: Well I first got to know him after he and Virginia [Foisie Rusk (Mrs.Dean)] came to Athens after he was appointed the Sam [Samuel H.] Sibley Professor of [International] Law. And I think I first met him in the Sears store when the Sears store was located over on--in the shopping center over off of near Alps Road, that area. He and Virginia were shopping for some household goods, and I ran into them and I introduced myself, and we chatted a little while. 00:02:00
RICHARD RUSK: What year did you join the faculty here?
BEAIRD: I joined the faculty in '67, 1967. And he came in 1970.
RICHARD RUSK: I see.
BEAIRD: And occupied at the time the office now occupied by Louis [B.] Sohn inthe main building. [As a] matter of fact, that office was carved out of what was then the faculty lounge and constructed for him. So, we still had a big faculty lounge left, but it's now filled with Louis Sohn's books. (Rusk laughs)
BEAIRD: But, he came in and he took an active role in the law school affairs. Hewas in great demand as a speaker all about the state. Despite the fact that there was some controversy over his appointment with the Board of Regents, I 00:03:00don't think we've ever had anyone come to the university that was so openly welcomed by the people of the state as Dean Rusk.
RICHARD RUSK: That's kind of ironic in a sense, because back in 1969 and 1970when he was on the market and looking for work, there were a good many colleges in other parts of the country that wouldn't touch him with a ten-foot pole back in those years.
BEAIRD: That's true.
RICHARD RUSK: How do you account for the fact that he got a different receptiondown here?
BEAIRD: I think one reason was that he was from Cherokee County, Georgia. He wasa "Georgia boy" coming home. And Georgians, I think, are basically proud of their own even though they may disagree with them on issues and so forth. They are basically proud of their own, and he was one of theirs. He, of course, was 00:04:00very outgoing, open to the people of the state.
RICHARD RUSK: Yeah. Probably the very fact that he chose to come back toGeorgia, or wanted to do it, made some difference to him.
BEAIRD: But, the outset from the very beginning--the people welcomed him.
RICHARD RUSK: Were you involved in the decision to hire him, to offer him thejob? I presume it's part of the faculty here you were aware the discussion and what the reaction of the faculty may have been.
RICHARD RUSK: How did you feel about him coming to this law school?
BEAIRD: Well, I think that, on the whole, people were pleased that he wouldconsider coming here. I think it stemmed initially from a conversation [University of Georgia Law School Dean] Lindsey Cowen had with him when he the Law Day Speaker in 1968.
RICHARD RUSK: They discussed it then?
BEAIRD: They discussed it then. [As a] matter of fact, I think Lindsey told me00:05:00that on the way back to the airport after making the speech--through which he was picketed by Milner [S.] Ball and group.
RUSK: (laughs). A close associate of my father's now--
BEAIRD: And whose daughter has been named for your mother.
RICHARD RUSK: Oh really?
BEAIRD: Virginia. Oh yeah.
RICHARD RUSK: I didn't know that at all.
BEAIRD: Milner Ball's daughter, Virginia, is named for your mother--who laterworked for your father as a research assistant to him. There was some concern about the fact that he [Dean Rusk] didn't have a law degree.
RICHARD RUSK: (laughs). Yeah.
BEAIRD: But, I think most of the people on the faculty agreed that he haspracticed a great deal of international law, and we realized at the time--maybe some more than others--that international law would be an important part of this 00:06:00schools program during the '70s and '80s.
RICHARD RUSK: Yeah.
BEAIRD: It would be important to the state and to the Bar [State Bar ofGeorgia?]. And this would be a terrific way to get the program started. So--
RICHARD RUSK: Was there an international law department or section of thefaculty of the program here before he came?
BEAIRD: No, it occasionally was taught. Bud Bowman, who basically was acontracts/corporations man, taught international law at one time. And various people picked it up, bits and pieces, but it really wasn't a favorite part of our curriculum really.
RICHARD RUSK: One person you had teaching international laws only previousexperience had been a summer's work with International Harvester and--
BEAIRD: Well that goes back a number of years ago. I'm told that one of00:07:00the--this was back before Lindsey Cowen's time--the story is told that Professor McWhorter, who also happens to be, happened to be, the University of Georgia's first All-American football player, was told that he would have to teach a course in international law, and he said the only experience he ever had at international law was working a summer for International Harvester. (laughter)
RICHARD RUSK: I don't know if you are aware of the conservation that took placewhen Lyndon [Baines] Johnson sat for the position at the University of Texas, but some of the faculty members out there also raised the point that he did not have a Ph.D. And I think someone else pointed out that surely experience--career experience and work experience ought to count for something. (laughs) Do you recall when the--when objection or some comment was raised about the fact that 00:08:00he did not have a law degree? Do you recall what was said or how those objections were expressed?
BEAIRD: Some initial comment was, well, you know, you expect anyone teaching ina law school to have a law degree or to have had experience in the practice of law and so forth. It was then pointed out that Dean had almost completed the requirements of a law degree at the Boalt Hall [School of Law, University of California--Berkeley]. The subject that he would be teaching, international law, certainly practiced for eight years by him as secretary of state. So, it was just a general discussion, and the faculty, if I recall, I'm sure voted unanimously. I don't remember any dissent. He was invited to join the faculty. 00:09:00The difficulty came with the Board of Regents. And I was later asked by a distinguished friend of the law school's whether or not it was wise to hire someone to teach on the faculty that did not have a law degree. At the time, the person was a member of the Board of Regents, but this was not at the same time that his name came up.
RICHARD RUSK: Right.
BEAIRD: And I answered him by saying that if there was any question, in thebeginning, the experience of the last few years indicated that it was one of the best things we ever did for Georgia. And everyone came to that view, even those that may not have held that view initially.
RICHARD RUSK: Yeah.
BEAIRD: Because you can see the result: the international law program is a00:10:00substantial part of this law school's curriculum and reputation. We never would have gotten Louis Sohn here if Dean hadn't been on the faculty.
RICHARD RUSK: My father said that it's a good thing he was brought in a a fullprofessor because otherwise he never would have made it. (laughs)
BEAIRD: Well, I don't know that he was inclined to write a lot of law reviewarticles and so forth. He made a lot of speeches.
RICHARD RUSK: He certainly did.
BEAIRD: I remember when I was acting Dean in '72--from '72 to '74--Ann [S.] Dunnsent over his--I'm sure Ann was his secretary then--sent over his activities for the year. It ran about eighteen to twenty pages. Speech here, colloquium there, and so forth and so on. He showed the flag for the university, there's no 00:11:00question. Fred [C.] Davison considered him a university faculty member, not just a faculty member of the law school.
RICHARD RUSK: I suppose his public service and speech-making helped compensatefor the fact that he really didn't publish anything while he was here on faculty, I gather.
BEAIRD: Well, that's true. I think he did--I think he wrote a book review of[Louis] Henkin's book on international law, and then he did at one point present the [Ferdinand?] Phinizy lectures.
RICHARD RUSK: Right.
BEAIRD: And much of what he said ultimately was put in hard copy form so that--
RICHARD RUSK: Transcripts were made, and they were published.
[break in recording]
BEAIRD: I remember after Dean joined the faculty here, he was invited to speakto one of the local civic clubs. And it so happened that they day of the speech 00:12:00was election day. Of course, under state law no liquor can be sold on election day. Dean always enjoyed a little scotch before making a speech just to clear his throat--
RICHARD RUSK: (laughs) Loosen up and get over his Cherokee County shyness, I think.
BEAIRD: Well, he could use two or three fingers of scotch before he speaks. Andso, he asked them, and I happened to be present. There was a flurry of activity, somebody trying to find a little scotch. (Rusk laughs). Well, I keep a supply in my office. The dean of the law school always has a pretty good supply of beverages, because you have to be prepared to meet any occasion. So, I'd rushed over to the law school and got a little scotch and brought it back over. And he 00:13:00had about half a water glass and made his speech.
RICHARD RUSK: I'll be darn.
BEAIRD: Great speech. But on the Law Day speech in 1968, the only thing that Iremember is that the speech was in the Fine Arts [Building] auditorium and the law school was excited about having the secretary of state down as its speaker. I think it had previously had Bobby [Robert Francis] Kennedy down, the attorney general back in the early '60s. So they had only two cabinet officers, I think, during the 1960s as speakers here. But there were the usual Vietnam picketers out in front of Fine Arts, and the leader of one of the groups was Milner Ball, 00:14:00who's now a law professor. And who later, after graduating from law school, studied under Dean Rusk and became his special assistant and close friend. And they named their youngest daughter after Virginia Rusk.
RICHARD RUSK: Dean Beaird, the opposition to the war in Vietnam was not nearlyas strong in Georgia as it was elsewhere in the country, but nevertheless my father played a very controversial role in the '60s and surely there was opposition to the war here. Certainly there were some mixed feelings about the fact that he was coming here, and yet, over the course of years as people got to know my father and got to see firsthand what kind of man he was, how did they reconcile the two? Was it a problem for anybody? 00:15:00
BEAIRD: While there was some anti-Vietnam feeling here at the University and inGeorgia, I think the general feeling in Georgia was that the justification for the action taken in Vietnam was mutual security. And many people believed that George [Catlett] Marshall, [Harry S.] Truman, and others developed the notion of collective security as the best way of preserving the peace. And if in fact collective security had worked, if the SEATO Agreement and all had been followed, Vietnam may have taken a different course. So I think the general 00:16:00attitude was "we're not going to condemn Dean Rusk for advocating a policy" that most people in this region supported. Some disagreed. But on the whole, most people believed in collective security as a way of preserving peace.
RICHARD RUSK: Well, Dean Beaird, who was instrumental in bringing my father hereto the University of Georgia?
BEAIRD: Well, of course, Lindsey Cowen was the dean of the law school, and heand Fred [Davison] had broached the idea to Dean Rusk after his 1968 Law Day speech on the way back to the airport. When Dean indicated that he may be amenable to coming here, Lindsey and the faculty made the recommendation, and Fred Davison is the person [who] fought the battle within the regents. He carried the ball there, but so did Chancellor Simpson. Chancellor Simpson was 00:17:00very much in favor of this and Jim [James] Dunlap, who was a member of the Board of Regents at the time. There were several regents for various and sundry reasons didn't approve of the appointment. Roy [Vincent] Harris whose grand-daughter just graduated from this law school a couple of years ago (Rusk laughs)--and Roy is a graduate of the law school--and on every other issue except segregation, is one of the best Regents this system ever had. He always treated the university well, but he had a least one blind spot. And I think maybe he was the leader of the opposition. Another regent--
RICHARD RUSK: --I believe, he called my dad a "an old, broken down politician"00:18:00and I believe he objected to the appointment based on my sister Peggy's [Margaret Elizabeth Rusk] marriage to a black fellow back in 1967.
BEAIRD: Yeah, that was an issue.
RICHARD RUSK: How hard a battle did Fred Davison have to fight with the regentsto get my dad appointed? Was it a close thing in any way? Or, I know the vote itself was nine to four in favor.
BEAIRD: Well, there were always the votes there. I think that the--it was clearthat Dean would be approved by the Board of Regents. Those in opposition, though, had to have their say and that took a little while.
RICHARD RUSK: I see.
BEAIRD: A fellow named Tony [Psalms?] was from Savannah, was a regent, and hevoted against your dad. I think he voted against your dad because Governor 00:19:00Lester [Garfield] Maddox had indicated that he may reappoint him to the Board--if he voted against him. (Rusk laughs) That's speculation on my part. I believe that it may have just been that Tony assumed that the governor would reappoint him if he voted against Dean and wouldn't if he voted for him.
RICHARD RUSK: Yeah.
BEAIRD: In any event, he was not reappointed, but he did vote against him. (Rusklaughs) And Tony is a long time friend of the law school, a fine fellow in every other respect.
RICHARD RUSK: Yeah. Dean Beaird, my dad was a professor, you were the Dean ofthe law school. What kind of reputation did he have here on the faculty and with the students as a teacher of international law?
BEAIRD: Well, he had an excellent reputation as a teacher. Any doubt about thatcan be resolved simply by looking at the class enrollment. He uniformly had well over a hundred students in his class, which in the early days was a strange 00:20:00phenomenon for Georgia Law School to have that much interest in international law. But your dad always brought to life many international personalities in his class. He would teach a case, a decision, and bring in, in the course of discussing that decision, a personal experience with people involved. So, he brought international law to life. Telling about an incident with Krishna Menon or [Charles Andr Joseph Mario] DeGaulle or someone like that. And I think that's what made his classes interesting. I mean, he was sound in international law concepts. Students enjoyed being part of history, watching it relived in 00:21:00front of them. He always had large enrollments in those classes.
RICHARD RUSK: Friends tell [that] he was sort of an easy mark as far asprofessors goes. He used two grades in his grading system: an A or a B, and not too much else.
BEAIRD: Well, I don't know. One thing he did do--he was very conscientious aboutgrading his papers. The den kind of looks at that, sometimes it's hard to get professors to grade papers, and get the grades in on time and so forth. But, he always was very conscientious about that. He would not allow any other activities to interfere with that.
RICHARD RUSK: [He] tried to make a point of not missing any classes.
BEAIRD: That's right. He rarely missed a class. That was his first priority. The00:22:00students loved him a result.
RICHARD RUSK: Genuinely so?
BEAIRD: Yeah, genuinely so.
RICHARD RUSK: He was sort of a revered teacher.
BEAIRD: That's right. And they revered him as a man. [The] International LawSociety started when he came here, after he came here. And there must be each year seventy or eighty students that participate in activities of the International Law Society. The [Georgia] Journal of International and Comparative Law started around 1970 when he came. So, he was responsible. Now Lindsey Cowen provided the impetus, too, in those days. He did everything he could to take advantage of your dad's presence here, which was very smart. The journal started out as a fairly average publication, but as all of us knew it 00:23:00has grown in stature and really developed.
[break in recording]
RICHARD RUSK: Go ahead and repeat that.
BEAIRD: One way of course they expressed their admiration was innaming--creating the Dean Rusk Award which is given each year for the best paper in international law. The students have, or also knew, that Dean was very generous. Any honoraria that he received, he turned it over to the dean of the law school.
RICHARD RUSK: Is that right?
BEAIRD: For use in either helping black students or students that wished to goto the Russell seminar. Matter of fact a number of students were able to attend law school that would not otherwise have been able to do so because of his generosity.
RICHARD RUSK: Is that a fact?00:24:00
BEAIRD: We had in the early seventies, his honoraria amounted to a significantamount of money. And he turned it over to us. And we, at that time, we did not have Regents' opportunity scholarships for deserving black students. But some of those people were given the financial aid that permitted them to go to law school.
RICHARD RUSK: Is that right? Now you're talking enough money to where it made itpossible for these black students to come to the university? That kind of thing?
BEAIRD: I'm talking about $15 to $20,000 a year.
RICHARD RUSK: Is that right? Did he turn that over?
BEAIRD: Oh yeah.
RICHARD RUSK: Did he virtually turn over every honorarium check or--?
BEAIRD: No, I mean I don't know that he turned in every one, but it seemed to methat he did cause I kept getting $5,000 checks, or $8,000 checks, or $3,000 and 00:25:00so forth. Every time he made a speech any place and the people wanted to give him an honorarium, he'd say just make it payable to the law school. And I get these checks in, sometimes a hundred dollars from some little woman's club or small group, sometimes a $1,000. It was because of that that we were determined to create the Dean and Virginia Rusk Fund. And that got its start, actually, from a surprise party given in honor of your dad and mother by Governor [George Dekle] Busbee over in Atlanta.
RICHARD RUSK: It's the same dinner where they gave them a Cadillac?
BEAIRD: Gave them that green Cadillac that he's still driving.
RICHARD RUSK: Right. (laughs) Yeah. He was touched by all that.
BEAIRD: Well there was some money left over. Something like--$30,000 left over00:26:00from that. And that was the beginning of the Dean and Virginia Rusk fund. Then we raised--attempted to--we got George Ball to help us try to raise some money for it from among your dad's colleagues and friends. We raised about $38,000 from that. I remember Mrs. Johnson gave $1,000 bucks or two. Of course old Avril Haraman, I think, gave a hundred dollars (Rusk laughs). And George Ball commented to me that the next time Haraman asked him for anything he was going to give him a hundred dollars (Rusk laughs). But the fund was really established when Belton Industries gave the law school $645,000 in stock. And the reason it 00:27:00was given to the law school was because Mr. Carol Brown in Belton, South Carolina operated a factory in South Carolina that manufactured bindings for cotton bales. And at one point in time he discovered that he could manufacture these bindings a lot cheaper in what is now Bangladesh. So he established a plant there. And when Bangladesh split off from Pakistan and established its own sovereignty that plant was nationalized. And your dad helped Mr. Brown recover 00:28:00under the International Insurance Program, recover most of his investment in that plant. Your dad refused to take a nickel in fees for it. Brown remembered that and although in his will he didn't specify that money come to the University of Georgia he told his nephew Carol Heart about this incident and then when Mr. Brown died and a certain portion of his estate was to be given to philanthropic purposes they decided--Carol Heart and Bob Heard from Elberton who was involved in it--decided that it ought to come to the Georgia Law School in honor of--at least in part in honor--of your dad. And we have since sold the 00:29:00stock back to Belton Baggy(?). And the Dean and Virginia Rusk fund now--as soon as all of that's paid for--will be up close to a million dollars.
RICHARD RUSK: I'll be darned. Dean Beaird getting back to this honorariumsituation--was this public knowledge at all that my father was more or less donating his checks to the law school? Or how did you--
BEAIRD: --Not at all. He was very particular that it not be public knowledge. Hedidn't want to get any--have any notoriety attached to his philanthropy. But he was so concerned with these students and concerned about helping these students that he made this general contribution every year and it amounted to thousands of dollars. A number of years later after he started doing this-- 00:30:00
END OF SIDE 1
BEGINNING OF SIDE 2
BEAIRD: A number of years after he started making these contributions I had theopportunity to introduce him as the main speaker at the mid-year meeting of the State Bar in Atlanta. This was maybe three years ago. And I decided at that time that the State Bar should know about his generosity and in trying to describe the kind of man that he was I thought this would be a great example to illustrate just how dedicated he was to Georgia and to the students. That he really meant it when he said that he wanted to devote his life after serving eight years as Secretary of State by coming back to Georgia and helping the young people of Georgia. And he did it in a very tangible way by making it 00:31:00possible for these young people to get a legal education, go to the Russell Seminar on International Law, paid their transport. And many of the students didn't know where the money came from. They thought it came from the law school. They thought the dean was being generous.
RICHARD RUSK: Dean Beaird.
BEAIRD: That's right. (Rusk laughs).
RICHARD RUSK: You weren't being generous, it was my father.
BEAIRD: I was using his money. (Rusk laughs) The money that he'd given. So Itook the opportunity in introducing him at the mid-year meeting to tell this story. And the people, I think, were genuinely touched. But I think the most--Dean is really responsible--for his--the kind of man he is was really responsible for us getting the Emily and Ernest Woodruff Chair, which is now 00:32:00held by Louis Sohn. Back in 1977 I persuaded the President, Fred Davison, and the Foundation Trustees to permit us to start a private capital fund for the law school; it seemed to me that while the state's resources helped us be a good law school we'd never be a truly great law school unless we had a substantial amount of private endowment. So I thought we should start someplace and 1977 was a good time to start. And we started by getting the Community Services Bureau, a consulting firm, to do a feasibility study to see how much money we could raise. And they said that you could probably raise three million dollars for the law school. This was at a time when private fundraising for a state school was not 00:33:00generally accepted in Georgia. People thought that they gave to the school when they paid their taxes.
RICHARD RUSK: Right.
BEAIRD: As a matter of fact that was Bob Woodruff's philosophy. Ken Henson, analumnus from Columbus, Georgia gave us $10,000 to pay for the feasibility study. And then the Community Services Bureau said that they would work with me in the campaign to raise the $3 million but they would need a fee of $40,000 for the first few months and I would owe them $40,000 even if we terminated the campaign 00:34:00after a few months. So I didn't have $40,000 in private money to spend so I went to see Mr. John Sibley and ask him if he would kind of serve as a consultant on this matter. He'd been a great friend of the law school and the University over the years. And asked if he wouldn't help us get one of the Woodruff funds to contribute at least $1 million toward this campaign. I laid out my problem to him that we wanted to start it but I didn't have $40,000 and the told me, "Well--" he said, "Son, you go ahead and do it. It looks like a good cause. If something happens along the way and you don't make it I think I have some 00:35:00friends that might scrape up $40,000 for you." So we started the campaign and he helped me prepare a proposal for $1 million to the Woodruff fund. And he says, "I'm helping you do this because I want this million dollar gift to be in honor of Dean Rusk. And the reason I want it to be in honor of Dean Rusk is because he's one of the few people that I've known, if not the only person, to serve in government for a number of years then decide not to capitalize on that government service." Said, "The reason he is so respected is because he 00:36:00practiced what he preached. He did in fact come back to Georgia and devote his time and energies not to making money but to helping the young people of the state. It is for that reason that we want to get a million dollar chair in his honor." And if you'll look at the trust instrument for the Emily and Ernest Woodruff fund it will specify that this is in honor of Dean Rusk.
[break in recording]
BEAIRD: People like John Sibley were really impressed by the fact that he didn'twrite a book to try to make a lot of money. That when he left the state department office he simply picked up his appointment books and I think his tax returns, he said, his hat and left. He never tried to capitalize on that. As a 00:37:00matter of fact he was a very poor negotiator, I think, when it came to honoraria. He always depended, and I may be overstating this a little bit, but he always depended on the generosity of those that were benefiting from his interviews. I remember not long ago he called me and said, "ABC's doing a three-hour special," I think it was ABC, (Rusk laughs) on the years from what '50 to '80 or something like that.
RICHARD RUSK: 1945 to '85, past forty years.
BEAIRD: "Now I contributed substantially to that and I know that they're goingto come in with--I've told them to send whatever honorarium that they're going 00:38:00to give me to the law school." I believe he mentioned a figure like $25,000, which I think he thought they would give him. When we finally got the check and I can't remember exactly, it was either $1,000 or $5,000.
RICHARD RUSK: I think it was $1,000. If that, it might have been more like $500.
BEAIRD: No, I think it was $1,000. It was something outrageous. (Rusk laughs)And I told him that he needed me as his agent from now on. That was outrageous because I saw the three-hour special.
RICHARD RUSK: Yeah.
BEAIRD: And he was all through it.
RICHARD RUSK: I took a bob and run through his faculty papers the other week andhe's got a file folder that thick of letters of inquiry from agents and to each of those inquiries he responded with two or three sentences of just not interested. He never did take the route of a personal agent. 00:39:00
BEAIRD: I've often thought many of the people that owed so much to Dean Ruskwere rather niggardly in their contributions in his honor. We got some help from some of the people that served with him and his friends and so forth but it's a matter of, not bitterness, but some concern to me that it took a man from South Carolina who really didn't know him but who he helped to build the Dean and Virginia Rusk fund to where it is.
RICHARD RUSK: Yeah. Probably worth pointing out that there's other00:40:00groups--Davidson College of Georgetown, Southern Center in Atlanta--all of them running around the country raising money in Dean Rusk's name. I think Davidson is trying to put together a $10 million fund and so a lot of these friends and colleagues of Dean Rusk get tapped pretty hard through other sources and that might have been part of the problem. Dean Beaird, what was the genesis of the Dean Rusk Center? Where did that idea come from? What role did my father play in all that and how did this come about?
BEAIRD: Well the idea of the Dean Rusk Center was suggested by a number ofpeople. I remember Bob Lovell thinking that we should have a special center that focused on International Law. And it was a question initially as to how to organize such a thing within the framework of the law school. Tulane University 00:41:00uses "center" concepts and Bob had been there at one time. Schoenbaum, I think, had been there at one time. I just inspected Tulane Law School so I see that the idea of a center came from there, although their notion of "centers" is nothing like what this turned out to be. Probably the key figure in establishing the Dean Rusk Center was Fred Davison. We could think a lot of things here in the law school, we could do a lot of things, but it took the authority of the President to establish it. And the reason it was the Dean Rusk Center rather than the Dean Rusk Institute was that centers could be established without Board 00:42:00of Regents approval just by notifying the board but an institute had to have their approval. And at the time we wanted to establish it we had no idea how it would be funded. We thought that we might be able to fund it privately. That was one reason for the Dean and Virginia Rusk Fund, among others. But in weak moments I would dream of someone giving $10 million to fund the Dean Rusk Center (Rusk laughs) and it never happened. The key to the Dean Rusk Center--there were two keys--three keys--well of course Dean Rusk being the focal point of it first. Secondly, Fred Davison's willingness to spend well over $200,000 out of general University money to refurbish the building--Waddell Hall, the building 00:43:00it now occupies--
RICHARD RUSK: The Georgia Press was there just prior to the--
BEAIRD: Georgia Press was there, yeah. And they were moved out and putinto--Terrell Hall. And then Fred spent well over $200,000 totally refurbishing the Waddell Hall. It almost had to be rebuilt; it's not a particularly big facility only 2,800 square feet roughly but it was ideal we thought. It gave us visibility and visibility was important. The third important thing, really, was the fact that when Huszagh was brought in as director he developed--
RICHARD RUSK: How do you spell his name?
BEAIRD: H-U-S-Z-A-G-H. Rick Huszagh.
RICHARD RUSK: Rick Huszagh. Okay.
BEAIRD: He developed a close working relationship with then Governor Busbee.00:44:00Busbee had a close relationship with the law school. He was a graduate. His executive secretary Norman Underwood was a graduate so we offered the services of the Rusk Center to Governor Busbee when he was Chairman of the Governor's Conference Committee on International Law. And Rick more or less served as special assistant to the Governor for that purpose. Then when he became Chairman of the Governor's Conference he continued using the Rusk Center. The Rusk Center did a lot of things. It prepared legislation, it wrote speeches, it reviewed proposals for purposes of giving Busbee an opportunity to comment and so forth. 00:45:00As a result, Busbee took $200,000 from his emergency fund and established a budget for the Rusk Center. The next year he told the Regents to put that in their budget so the Rusk Center now has a permanent budget of $200,000 plus increases that have taken place.
RICHARD RUSK: Yeah, I would agree.
BEAIRD: And that's the initial base for the Rusk Center. Of course, Dean'ssalary was not paid out of that. His salary was paid in the early years by state funds plus a $20,000 supplement from the Lardens Foundation.
RICHARD RUSK: Did my dad help put together the Rusk Center? Was he sort of abooster of it or what role did he take?
BEAIRD: Oh yes, well he was a big booster of it. He did not want to play a00:46:00central role, yet in fact he did. He wanted to have the Executive Director play the central role. But his presence there was key to the success of the Rusk Center. While Huszagh was there he was consulting with Dean all the time. So in effect Dean was consulting with Busbee.
RICHARD RUSK: Dean Beaird, was my father a little bit embarrassed by the idea ofa Rusk Center being built? I know just from his own reaction to my writing a book with him and about him and forming a collection that he calls himself, "a victim, not an instigator." Really, how did he feel about the idea of a Rusk Center being built?
BEAIRD: Well he reflected that same attitude initially. He didn't want to besingled out. He didn't want to be highlighted. Yet at the same time I got the 00:47:00impression and people working with him got the impression that he thought the Center was a very good idea. It helped focus attention on issues that he was interested in, that he did feel that he could make a contribution to the state in some of those areas through the Rusk Center. So while he was reticent he was also very cooperative. And as a member of the Rusk Center Board has always been a moving figure he's always taken the lead on projects and indicated that the Rusk Center had a very significant role to play. 00:48:00
RICHARD RUSK: Given my dad's former position, was he able to help bring someformer government leaders to the University?
BEAIRD: Oh yeah. I was acting Dean in 1973. Earl Warren, Chief Justice EarlWarren came to Georgia as a Sibley lecturer and it was only because of his respect for your dad that he agreed to come. At the time he had retired from the Chief Justice position but he was still vigorous even though he was in his early '80s. He gave a tremendous Sibley lecture and I'll remember that the news media tried their best to cover him and he said, "I am here to meet with faculty and students and not the press." So he was one of the most gracious individuals that 00:49:00I have ever--later on when the Dean Rusk Center was established, Lady Bird Johnson came for the dedication as did George Bald and then Henry Kissinger came, Cyrus Vance came. We've had a parade of distinguished Americans come through here because of your dad's presence here.
RICHARD RUSK: Dean Beaird, I believe in 1974 Jimmy Carter and Ted Kennedy wereboth speakers for the Law Day Ceremony at the Law School. Do you have any particular stories from that experience worth relating here? My dad was not a speaker that day.
BEAIRD: Well, Jack Carter, Jimmy Carter's eldest son, was a senior in the LawSchool at the time and was scheduled to graduate in June. We had invited Ted 00:50:00Kennedy, Senator Kennedy, to be the Law Day speaker and Bill Gunter, who was very close to Jimmy Carter who was then a member of the Georgia Supreme Court and later went on to panel the Massachusetts or Maine Indian affair for Carter as president and then came back to and worked for the Kolby(?) Patrick Law Firm. With the Law School Association president he arranged for the Governor to be the Law Day luncheon speaker--the Law School Association speaker. Now, this fellow from Rolling Stone was here but we didn't--
RICHARD RUSK: You're talking about Hunter Thompson?
BEAIRD: Hunter Thompson. I didn't know it until later on. He had asked us for a00:51:00tape of the speeches. Asked Glen Wood for a tape of the speeches. Since then we have been asked several times by several people for tapes of those particular speeches. I remember that Teddy Kennedy, Teddy Kennedy's staff must have spent twenty hours on a small segment on the introduction to his speech, which he attempted and did successfully show the connection between Massachusetts and Georgia. It was very artfully done (Rusk laughs). But his staff spent a lot of time on it, of course he had a big staff. But it was very well done and Senator Kennedy delivered a very compatible speech to the audience. I remember the 00:52:00President Fred Davison and I sat on either side of him at lunch and we had a very difficult time carrying on a conversation. He seemed not to be concerned about where he was. He was a very hard person to talk with. The camera lights go on and he'd beam and then all of a sudden he'd be like a cold fish. I didn't find him to be a particularly outgoing--he's just one on one with people. But the interesting thing about it--Teddy Kennedy gave the compatible speech and the luncheon speech given by Carter was basically anti-lawyer in the sense that it was very critical of the legal profession. And it took some of us by surprise 00:53:00that he would come over on the Law Day, Law School Association luncheon and blast the legal profession.
RICHARD RUSK: He did the same thing here at the University when he showed up fora--at the Tate Center and spoke very critically of student apathy several years ago so I don't think he saved that approach uniquely for the Georgia Law School.
BEAIRD: No, and later on--
RICHARD RUSK: It was his style as president as a matter of fact.
BEAIRD: And later on he gave essentially the same kind of speech and maybe evenpartly the same speech in Los Angeles after he'd been president for a couple years. I remember commenting to a very good friend, Charlie Curbow who's been very supportive of the Law School, that I'd heard that speech before (Rusk laughs). But that was quite an occasion and we didn't really know that Thompson was in the crowd--I didn't at least. Jack Carter told me later that the 00:54:00Governor--Jimmy Carter had invited Ted Kennedy to spend the night in the Governor's mansion and come over by helicopter with him to Law Day and then they drove back to Atlanta in a highway patrol car. And Jack told me later that it was at that time that President Carter decided to run for the presidency. Or at least he decided that he could beat the best that the democrats had to offer if he ran for president. He viewed Ted Kennedy as being the principle presidential prospect.
RICHARD RUSK: He said to himself that if that's the man that can be president,well then I'm capable of it myself.
BEAIRD: That's right. And I can take him.
RICHARD RUSK: Interesting.
BEAIRD: That's basically what he said. Jack Carter told me that. Ironically he00:55:00told me that when he was over soliciting money for Jimmy Carter's campaign for the presidency and I told him he must have been kidding (laughter). Later on--I didn't. Gave him a good contribution the next time.
RICHARD RUSK: Yeah. Dean Beaird, you said he spent a lot of time on the roadmaking speeches performed a good deal of public service. Just how diversified an audience did he try to reach?
BEAIRD: Well I remember he was invited--many of the invitations came through myoffice. People would call me first. I guess they assumed that I might be able to help them, get him to agree to speak. The War College at Maxwell Air Force Base in Montgomery. I told them I thought the only condition would be that they'd 00:56:00have to send someone over to either fly him down there or drive him down there because it was such a trip, long trip. But I think probably the breath of his service, this type service, can be illustrated with the fact that--I was walking over from the Law School to the president's office which adjoins the Rusk Center one morning and I saw a group sitting on the steps of the Rusk Center. There was Dean standing down on the sidewalk. Turned out to be a fourth grade class from one of the elementary schools here. So he would give of his time to any group if he thought that they could benefit from what he had to say. He would speak at 00:57:00churches--First Methodist Church had a program and I introduced him on the Far East and he spoke there. There are very few groups that he did not get invitations to address and many he accepted.
RICHARD RUSK: I can tell by the nature [Tape cuts out]..My father was for anumber of years was the advisor to the black student group here at the Law School. Do you recall they exact name of that group--their nickname is BALSA.
BEAIRD: Black American Law Students Association.
RICHARD RUSK: Do you have any stories that relate to his role with that group?
BEAIRD: Yes, I think we are very fortunate that he served as advisor to thatgroup during the time that he did. Black American Law Students Association in the early '70s got to be quite a militant group. 00:58:00
RICHARD RUSK: As the country at large became rather militant.
BEAIRD: That's right. They were very demanding and I think that your dad'spresence as advisor to that group helped the Law School administration work with them, attempt to meet their needs consistent with the needs of the Law School at large, and brought us through a fairly turbulent period.
RICHARD RUSK: What were the issues as far as the law students here were concerned?
BEAIRD: Financial aid, admissions--Seemed that on one hand some of the studentswould say you must admit X number of black students without regard to qualifications. You must not flunk out any students. Things like that. 00:59:00
RICHARD RUSK: Yeah.
BEAIRD: And your dad's presence was very helpful to be as Acting Dean and thenlater as Dean in dealing with those issues.
RICHARD RUSK: Obviously from the nature of your comments you have some strongfeelings about my father.
[break in recording]
RICHARD RUSK: Go ahead.
BEAIRD: Well I think that he's made a very important substantial contribution tothe progress of the Law School during the time that I've been associated with it. I decided in 1967 to make a career change at the age of 40. I'd been Associate Solicitor of the Labor Department and Associate General Council of the National Labor Relations Board and had established a pretty good career in government in those areas.
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